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45 or 50 cal
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I think Vint2 is in line with what the rifle manufacturers make. There are several times more 50's than 45's listed. And I can't believe there is a big difference in what it costs (profit) to build one over the other, so there must be a lot more people out there buying the 50's over the 45's. I'll go with the 50 and see how a sabot and full size bullet compare on the range. What kind of power should I be looking at in a scope for 50 to 100 yards? In fact, I have my eye on a used 50 that has a scope that looks brand new.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Let me be the first to wish you a HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I have used scopes in 1 1/2, 4 , and variable power. I currently have a variable on each of my Knights and like them really well. You will have to check out some scopes to see what you like, but I would stay with a 2 1/2 0r 4 power unless you plan on getting into long range shooting. by that I mean shots of 150yds plus on a regular basis. Regular shooting at 150 yds plus you may want to consider a good variable and that is a different game again!!

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

This used one I was looking at has a pretty big scope, but I never looked to see if it was variable. I should look it over better. It is a Traditions Pursuit with a thumbhole stock. It's a little over $400, so it's basically get the scope for free and pay the new price.

What would you think I should look at closely. Have them take the breech plug out and look down the barrel? I already looked the stock and barrel over and it pretty much looks brand new on the outside. It still has the shields for both ends of the Nikon scope. At least from the outside, it looks as if it was well cared for.

Reading info from Pyrodex and Triple 7 web site, it states no more than 100 grains (by volume) for any load, but the Tradition web site says 150.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I put a Bushnell Elite 3200 1.4-to-4.5x scope on my Encore. It has the "Firefly" reticle that can useful in low light. I liked it well enough to buy a second one for a Marlin .45-70. They stay set on 1.5x for the most part but it's nice to be able to crank them up a bit for load testing.

Another option would be the scopes from Burris, Nikon, etc that have some extra cross hairs or dots for various ranges.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Thanks Pumpkinslinger, all info is appreciated. I've seen the extra lines on my son in law's shotgun scope. He likes that. The one thing I liked about the scope on the used rifle I am looking at is that it would be great for the target range.
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

The .45 sabots I use has a .357 bullet. you can get heavier dead center sabots that will have a .40 cal bullet. The bullet it's self, whether its a .357 or .40 cal., looks like an all lead Nosler ballistic tip boat tail. Most of the sabots I've seen use pistol type bullets.

The main reason that I can think of why a lot of people are going for the .50cal. is the advertizing. Like you see on the outdoor channel so they make more of them. I would stick with the .45 myself.

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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I use Leatherwoods 3X 9 HPML built specially for muzzle loaders. I have reticles so I can zero at 100 yds and hold dead on out to 200. I have gotten fantastic accuracy with this on my Knight "Shadow". You can zero and do target work at 9 power , then hunt at whatever you want to use.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

vint2... I bought the used one, the Pursuit II XLT. It had a 3 variable to 9 Nikon scope. Same thing, it's made for muzzle loaders and each mark represents a different distance. And like you, I'll use the 9 power for the range and much less for the field. I took it apart and you could tell that it had been shot, but it was very clean and in great shape. Even though it has a scope and 28 inch barrel, it was noticeably lighter than the rifle with a 26 inch barrel sitting next to it without a scope. And I like the thunb hole stock. So I'm satisfied with what I have. If Al Gore's global warming ever kicks in, I'll take it to the range and see how it does. Would I be wise to start with a 50 grain load just to make sure everything is OK? After all, it is used.

I'm very appreciative of the advice I got. In looking at what resources I have close by, the fact that almost everything is 50 cal, and that this used one was available, I think it was the right decision for me. There is no way I would have been able to buy this same rifle new in either 45 or 50. I'll let everyone know when (if) it ever gets above zero for more than a day or two how it shoots.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Welcome to the blackpowder fraternity!!! If you use 777 you will have to wipe the bore between shots for accuracy or you will build up a crud ring that will throw you off the charts. It is a great powder, don't get me wrong, but I use it and it does have a couple of quirks. Also you may not be able to use it more than three times before you have to clean anyway.
You can use the manufactuers recommedation for loads and I would start out with 75 or 80, but you can suit your self. Build up slowly using 5 grain increments to increase your powder charge. Even if you can load and handle 150 gr loads I don't know what use you would make of them in this country.
If you have more questions you can also contact me by email and not tie up the posting here so much.
By the way, it sounds like you made a good buy! It will be interesting to see what you can do on the range! My brother has Traditions and likes them real well.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Excuse me there sir !!! But other people are interested in what your all saying !!!

Don’t be running off now. wtf It’s not like you hi-jacked the thread or something.

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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Won't run off, just wait for the next question or comment that I can respond too! Smile

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I'm off to Montana for a week. Here is what they told me with Pyrodex. Completely clean and lube everything per their directions. After you fire, run one damp, just from the moisture in your mouth, patch down the barrel and reload and shoot, do this between each shot. Repeat the lubed patch and 2 dry patches after 4 shots. When I start to dial it in, I was thinking of 3 shot trials. If I yank one, I can always shoot a 4th.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

What is the twist for your rifle barrel? I used Pyrodex for a lot of years, but it is not one I use now. 777 or Blackhorn are much easier to use and clean up after plus they give you much better results for speed and energy. I have seen this on my own chronograph.
i would make sure I thoroughly clean the rifle from stem to stern and gave it a proper lube job. BE sure and run a dry patch down the bore and pop at least two primers with no powder before you load the rifle. Do not clean-just load and fire after the primers.
If you are going to be in the Missoula area and you run into a fella by the name of Toby Bridges tell him John from Decorah says hello!!!

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Missoula is a couple hundred miles from where I'll be. Beautiful country. Can't get enough of it.

It says it has a one in 28 twist with a 28 inch barrel. The other person I talked to also said to fire primers after cleaning - before shooting, but he said to tuck a patch in the barrel when you shoot the primer only.

I'm open on the powder. Of the two, which do you think would suit me best. I plan on shooting enough this summer to be out of powder before hunting season starts. I plan on buying smaller amounts of the loose powder. What size granules should I buy? The rifle and powder will be stored in a basement of a house that doesn't have air conditioning, so it will be somewhat humid, but much cooler than upstairs.

Then what about bullets? I like the looks of the ones that have the plastic band on the bottom. I assume this means I don't need a patch between the bullet and powder. Or do you think the sabots are better. I was thinking of something like 300 grain hollow points, which seems like a monster compared to the 90 gain hollow points I shot in my 25-06 years ago.

The breech plug on this rifle isn't what I expected. Instead of having a hex head to loosen or tighten it, it has something that looks like it's made to come off by hand. There are some holes in it so that there must be some type of a wrench to work with it. It came loose in the store with a lot of hand pressure, then screwed out very smoothly. In the cold outdoors or with a hot barrel, I'm thinking I will need a wrench.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

The twist in your barrel says that you are pretty much committed to sabots. Anything else will not work properly in your rifle. I use 777(triple seven) or Blackhorn 209 and TC Shockwave 250 gr bullets or Parker Productions Ballistic Extreme in 250 or 275 gr. I get good accuracy from any of these bullets, but I get superior accuracy with the TC Shockwave,unbonded.
Now, I can sit here all day till Sunday and tell you what I use, but the best advice I can give you is to buy and use different components until you find what works best for you and your particular rifle.
Blackhorn 209 is not graded to the best of my knowledge. Hogdons 777 is ffg or fffg. ffg is rifle powder. Fffg is pistol powder. I have been using 100 gr of fffg for 20 years and getting along fine with it, as do many of my hunting buddies who are into black powder.
If you use the Blackhorn you will need to use the 209 shotgun pimers to set it off. It is designed for shotgun primers and is more difficult to fire than other bp subs. It is, however, in my estimation, the best powder on the market for bp folks. It is easy to clean. No soap and water, just use your regular cleaning solvent.

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Last edited by vint2 on Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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