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Sorted my bullets by weight
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:17 am    Post subject: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

I sorted 150 Hornady .277 GMX 130gr yesterday to prepare for this years shooting. The spread of weights went from 129.1 to 130.9 with the greater mass of weights from 129.5 to 130.3. They looked like a bell curve laid out on the workbench. Anyway, my question is, how shall I load them? From the middle out? Heavy to lightest?
I'm thinking load the ones that are at the extreme to use for foulers or shooting targets on windy days, then start at the low side and work up.

chambered, I'm guessing you will say put them all back in the box and mix'em up.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

What is the level of precision you are striving for and what is the weapon system capable of?

To satisfy your curiosity and prove chambered is right, I would load 12 of the lightest 12 of the middle and 12 of the heaviest.

Shoot a six shot group with each but do them blinded with an assistant.

Then mix 3 of the heavies with 3 lights 3 lights with three middles 3 heavies with three middles..

When you are done you will have six six shot groups - compare POI and group size then compare that to what is required for the task at hand

i.e taking a deer at 300 yards...2 moa will do.


Do a similar experiment with hand weighed charges and meter thrown charges... out to 300 yards.. you are probably wasting time to weigh each charge unless the psychological comfort makes you trust the load more.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
chambered, I'm guessing you will say put them all back in the box and mix'em up.

Yup.......but you won't listen !!!

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

Dawgdad, I may just do what you suggested. At first, I thought it wouldn't be worth the time and ammo, because for a hunting round, I'm sure the difference would be minimal (and support chambered's position). I just like my loads to be the best they can be.

In prior discussions of weight differences, we noted a direct correlation of weight to bullet length. My 150gr Berger VLD bullets are within +-0.05 grains and are very consistent. I have noticed my latest batch of 110gr Barnes TTSX came in with about 1/2 the weight dispersion that the groups are bit tighter. Might be a good weekend project.

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Last edited by slimjim on Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

Just for the heck of it I ran some numbers on Point Blank !!! (Thanks again Dallan)

.277 130gr B-Tip vs 140gr B-Tip @2900 zero@100 yards
The difference @ 300 yards is .17 @ 500 yards it's still only .75

So a 2 grain difference translates to a .15 difference @ 500 yards !!!

Of course this is just a mathematical calculation and real world shooting may differ a bit.

I do agree that it should be a blind test and I also suggest that you never come to a conclusion based upon a couple of 5 shot groups.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

I agree with Chambered221, I have had way worst when casting bullets for my firearms and if I ever got that consistency from casting, I would be happy.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
Just for the heck of it I ran some numbers on Point Blank !!! (Thanks again Dallan)

.277 130gr B-Tip vs 140gr B-Tip @2900 zero@100 yards
The difference @ 300 yards is .17 @ 500 yards it's still only .75

So a 2 grain difference translates to a .15 difference @ 500 yards !!!

Of course this is just a mathematical calculation and real world shooting may differ a bit.

I do agree that it should be a blind test and I also suggest that you never come to a conclusion based upon a couple of 5 shot groups.

10 grain difference - Also assumes they would have the same point of impact with the same sight setting.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

Wow, I'm not unhappy. I like these GMX bullets and plan to use them next hunting season. I just want to do the best reloading I can possibly do with the limited equipment I have. Sorting by bullet weight is something I've been doing just because I could. If it helped good, but I didn't expect it to hurt accuracy.

I like shooting this load so I'll try to set this up following close to Dawgdad's suggested format. When I'm done, I won't have any left of the extremes so my dilema in the first post of this topic will be basically solved.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

I'd bet that, if you took the five lightest and the five heaviest and shot a 10 shot group you'd never be able to tell which ones were which.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

A tight wad like me would fire a 9 shot group 3 light 3 mid 3 heavy and have a looksee. as Dawgdad says what level of accuracy is it you are after? my ol smoke pole will poke ANY load you want to put through it into a 3"high 2"wide group at 100yrds.I reakon your group would be pretty darn good even with different weights.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

Slim...don't bother weighing your bullets mate...I reckon you are making a rod for your back. A 1.8 grain difference between lightest and heaviest realistically is negligible, and I will be very surprised if you can find any discernible difference in the POI.

I can understand...and fully support...your quest to produce the perfect and consistent handloaded round...but unless your are applying the same level of consistency to every component in the loaded round, then there will always be a variable, and even then there are things that are out of your control. If such a round existed, then we would not be happy with any less than one hole of calibre diameter groups.

DawgDad has said it all mate, and I don't need to mention Chambered... also, as Punkin said mate...you won't be able to pick which round is which on the target.

If weighing each bullet floats ya boat, go ahead and do it...but with the tolerances you have found in the last batch...don't loose any sleep over it mate. You, or the deer will never notice the difference.

Load 'em up mate, get out there and fill ya tags. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
A tight wad like me would fire a 9 shot group 3 light 3 mid 3 heavy and have a looksee. as Dawgdad says what level of accuracy is it you are after?

Elvis, a man after my own heart. I loaded up 12 last night like you suggested with an additional 3 made up of one light, mid, and heavy so I can shoot 4 groups and compare: light, mid, heavy, mixed. If I can't tell the difference than there is no need to shoot anymore.

My goal is 1/2 MOA accuracy out to 500+ yards. I weight every powder charge to a 0.05 grain by always adding weight and stopping just as the digital scale clicks over a 0.1 grain. Example, if my load is to be 55.5 grains of powder, I stop at 55.4 and add a stick at a time until it just rolls over to 55.5 grains. Depending on the powder, 3 or 4 sticks usually make a 10th of a grain. If this is a true OCW derived load, it shouldn't make a difference. But, it is what I do. I like loading Saturday mornings and listening to talk radio.

I'll test and see.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

Slim,
I did the same thing for a while - trying to make the five shot - one hole group. I weighed my bullets in three groups but when I got around to shooting them the POI didn't change enough to detect. Then I tried throughing charges (using ball powders - double base) and I found out that the thrown charges were more accurate than the weighed charges by around 1/4 MOA across the board. I even weighed cases and segregated them too into 4 grain steps.
After all my years reloading I now separate the military cases and weigh them just to make sure they are all in an 8 grain range and to adapt my loads for the reduced powder space. The whole time I was doing it my brother told me I was being anal about it but I though it was necessary - I now know better.
Shoot the bullets with thrown charges and enjoy it.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

I weight cases but don't do that anymore. I don't mix brands. I'll enjoy shooting these round.

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorted my bullets by weight Reply with quote

I seem to remember my Dad telling me about benchrest shooters weighing each bullet.
Last winter, on a boring day, I started weighing my different types of cast bullets that I reload for pistol shooting. I couldn't believe the disparity from one bullet to the next.
I stopped weighing so I wouldn't start going goofy on my reloading. Shocked

Without hijacking this thread, am I correct that benchrest shooters weigh their bullets??

Eric

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