HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: CGSEAL
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12393

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 126
BOT: 4
Total: 131
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: Elvis > Home
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Photo Albums
06: Forums
07: Photo Albums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Your Account
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Photo Albums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Statistics
24: Forums
25: Photo Albums
26: Photo Albums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Photo Albums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Your Account
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Your Account
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Photo Albums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Photo Albums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Photo Albums
64: Your Account
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Photo Albums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Photo Albums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Photo Albums
83: News
84: Home
85: Photo Albums
86: Forums
87: Photo Albums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Photo Albums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Photo Albums
102: Forums
103: Photo Albums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Photo Albums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Your Account
116: Home
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Photo Albums
120: Forums
121: Your Account
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Your Account
03: Forums
04: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 312
 Pictures: 2417
  · Views: 263287
  · Votes: 1279
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures)
Discussions run-amok, innane banter it all goes here
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Spam-O-Rama

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

I have been into planes since Grade 5, and this is a interesting development, its sort of a class of its own (read below at my comment).

Quote::
China's stealth fighter makes first flight
Peter Clarke
1/11/2011 7:27 AM EST


LONDON – China's prototype J-20 "Black Eagle" stealth fighter made its first-known test flight Tuesday (Jan. 11), according to online reports.

The J-20 flew for about 15 minutes over an airfield in the southwest city of Chengdu, reports said.

The test flight was made on the second day of a visit to China by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates. China's President Hu Jintao confirmed the J-20's flight to Secretary Gates in a meeting a Reuters report said, quoting Gates as its source.

Recent activity around the development of the J-20 appears to show that China is making faster progress than previously thought in developing a rival to the U.S. F-22 stealth fighter, the reports said.

However, rather than being a threat to the U.S. the fact that the Chinese authorities have made no attempt to suppress reports about the J-20 is being seen as an attempt to be more open and transparent over military matters, the reports said.

The U.S. is the only nation known to operate a radar-eluding "stealth" fighter. The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 "Raptor" first flew in September 1990 and is said to have entered service with the USAF in December 2005.

The J-20, in development by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group, is a single-seat, twin-engine aircraft, bigger and heavier than Russia's Sukhoi T-50 and the F-22, according to Aviation Week which reported high-speed taxi test earlier in the month. The plane is expected to enter service sometime between 2017 and 2019.

Pictures of the plane, on the ground:











The Tail can turn completely instead of depending on a smaller flap.



Take off of the plane:



Bottom view of the plane in the air:



Plane in the air:





The console that was previously displayed as the "future" version for their next plane, which can only be the J20.



This seems to be for the interceptor role, so more of a defensive position then a offensive one based on its relative size and possible missile bay sizing internally. So its not a stealth like fighter like the F-22 or F-35 and the Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA, nor is it a stealth bomber cause its relatively too small to hold any real compliment of bombs. Making it possibly the first stealth interceptor out there as far as I know.

Apparently they built the first prototype in a year, and its been unofficially confirmed that its a domestic engine not a Russian one the test flight used. Which kinda serves as a show of how fast they can get their industry in gear to make something, verses the long development cycles that typically take for a new fighter. The F-35 took 3 years before the first one was built, even after the X-35 prototype was built and won the contract for the JSF. They could possibly have a fleet of them built in less time then the F-35 will reach operational strength. Shocked

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 4352
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

D, I'm not convinced that the thing is all that effective yet. Remember the MIG-25? Everyone was all worried about it until someone defected with one and we found it that it was rather crude. It will be interesting to follow this story.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anyone else, and there ain't no one better than me!" Ma Kettle

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
1895ss
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 2613
Location: West of Here!!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
D, I'm not convinced that the thing is all that effective yet. Remember the MIG-25? Everyone was all worried about it until someone defected with one and we found it that it was rather crude. It will be interesting to follow this story.

Yep, I agree...

_________________
A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Mike,

To be fair, its not a completely new design, the Chinese stole just about every document they could from the DoD in 2007-2008 about the F-35 JSF. So they had a mountain of documents to base their work on. Some of the similarities are visible on the outside, so you got to wonder what they have similar on the inside.

Additionally with the amount of offshoring to China, they do now have a pretty high tech manufacturing sector, their SMIC Foundry produces 45nm parts on 300mm silicon, and has a sales of over one billion USD a year making it the 5th largest in the world and on par technology wise till approximately 2012 when American and Taiwanese companies expect 28nm foundries to go online.

PS. Lt. Viktor Belenko, defected 11 years and 8 days before I was born. Embarassed

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
Remember the MIG-25? Everyone was all worried about it until someone defected with one and we found it that it was rather crude.

The MiG-25 was crude by our standards but when analyzed, we found that the crude parts were fit for function. They didn't need to be better. The jet was built to operate in conditions that ours couldn't even taxi in. An impressive feat of engineering.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
the Chinese stole just about every document they could from the DoD in 2007-2008 about the F-35 JSF.

It shows! The forward fuselage look like the F-35. They even used the cockpit design - wide display with "Portaling" to manage the different formats. Copying is the sincerest form of flattery! They also took from F22 and YF23.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

I wanted the YF-23 to win the trials over the F-22. But I guess my choice was not well liked. Northrop makes some pretty advance technology.

Had a longer range, greater combat radius, and a weight less, and could carry more heavier combat loads.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
I wanted the YF-23 to win the trials over the F-22.

Man that was so long ago, I'm sketchy on the details. As much as the YF-23 had advantages, it fell short on some key capabilities.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

It was not as agile, which for a air superiority fighter can be a issue, especially if in a dog fight, however most of the time there are no dog fights anymore.

I didn't learn about the YF-23 and YF-22 selection till I was 10, when I started to take a interest in the technical side of the movies I had watched on the history channel. By being given a book from 1990 or so when both the YF-22 and YF-23 were featured (it was a book of all the then current fighter planes worldwide) but the "winner" of that competition had not been published, so by the time I finished the book I went online just to find out the YF-22 won the trials.

Mind you it puts things into perspective, it took 14 years from the Trial win for the F-22 to be introduced. Taking Moore's law into a account, it means, that the computer systems on the YF-22 and the YF-23 were 128 times slower then the ones available at its introduction as a fighter plane.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Taking Moore's law into a account, it means, that the computer systems on the YF-22 and the YF-23 were 128 times slower then the ones available at its introduction as a fighter plane.

Doesn't matter, the computers are still not fast enough. The software has swallon to 4 million+ lines of code and is now the most expensive aspect of an air vehicle.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

To be fair,

The 4+ Million lines of code isn't much, Windows XP has 45 million lines of code and can be used on a 1Ghz computer. The Linux Kernal on its own has 14+ million lines of code and can work on a computer with 100Mhz of processing power on a base install without a hick up.

PS Apple does the best job at software programming they went from BSD's base 9 million lines of code to a staggering 86 million lines of Code for OS X 10.4 Rolling Eyes Shocked

What is needed for planes however is not the code size, but its ability to constantly pool a ton of sensors on board and process the data, then convert it to flight stabilization movements faster then the pilot would even feel the plane move. Cause they are not flying planes anymore, but big expensive bricks in the air, in a aerodynamic sense.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2985
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Dimitri:

Yup your right about windows bloatware and even worst, mac. But with windows and mac being a closed system to all but a few elite vendors (intel..etc) the kernel cannot be changed at all. Linux on the other hand allows anyone to build a kernel for their own needs after developing or downloading the source file.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

I know Ominivision,

I am quite a fan of Linux myself. If any of Linus Torvalds, Marcelo Tosatti, Alan Cox, and Andrew Morton quit, there will be issues I foresee, they put a lot into the software. They as a team are the reason Linux is what it is today. Even if they do fight and have flame wars on a minute by minute basis.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
What is needed for planes however is not the code size, but its ability to ....

There is also a software safety cerification and real-time run environments that Windows and Mac don't have to deal with.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The new J20 Stealth Plane? (lots of pictures) Reply with quote

That is true Jim.

For embedded applications, there are a number of RTOS's out there that are both military certifiable and FDA medical device certifiable now. For IC's that are not much more powerful then a early to mid 1980's computer either (about 10-30MHz).

All this talk reminds me, I have not looked at my C library for the AVR in a while. I need to get back into it. Bang Head

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Spam-O-Rama
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.