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Target practise and hunting
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Daveyboy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:27 am    Post subject: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Dear all

You know, I used to think that the more lead I chucked down the range the better 'live' shot I would be. That makes sense doesn't it? Practise the trigger squeezes, breathing, handling recoil etc. It's all gotta help, right? Bear in mind that I've been shooting since about the age of 5 and spent years in the Army doing everything from 9mm pistol to sniper rifles to 30cal HMG's. I now shoot rifles, shot guns and A-G's.

Well, now I'm not so sure about this 'target' practise.

Let me tell you. I was out the other day (I hadn't been out shooting deer for ages) stalking Fallow bucks and my pal Andy says "There is a huge Muntjaq around the corner, do you want him instead?" So I have a look and he's about 100 yards away. What do you want? Big Fallow buck or prized Muntjaq? Take one and lose the other. So I say "OK" and crawl up this little hill so that I can get a clean shot at him. All good so far.

Bipod legs are already out (common practise in England for woodland and open country stalking) turn up the magnification a bit whilst i'm crawling and there he is, with his girlfriend, and I get set up on him. Would you believe it, the bugger only goes and moves on me! Then he turns 'round and starts walking across the way.

And this is the point. Paper targets don't move - they stay right where you left them. So the dot's on the heart and the bugger moves and I pull the trigger. Well he went down on the spot but it would have been a far better shot if the bullet had hit just 1 inch further forwards. Confused
Just so's you know, a large Muntjaq is about the same size as a Labrador dog. As it happens, the bullet mullered the internals and mixed up a load of blood with a load of guts which made the gralloch a bit messy.

So, I was a-wondering what you guys think of it all. I know that there are some of you that do nothing but live targets and there are some of you that shoot a thousand rounds a year of which maybe 5 go into a live target.

Comments please.

D

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Daveyboy, as an ex soldier you can understand the difference between paper and a live target. I mean its a bit like tactics......nothing can be proven until you put them into practice on the two way range.

However, having said that I believe that every round you fire on the range will benefit you in some way when you get out into the field. Remember what a "drill" is mate, something you do without necessarily conscious thought, and it only comes from practice ie, a Contact Drill or Stoppage Drill/IA.

Shooting on the range will assist you to become one with your firearm, it will allow you to practice your Rule of Aim and Sequence of Firing a Shot. It will also allow you to identify any quirks that your firearm may have, how your loads react in a given situation...hot/cold/windy day, time of day, morning/afternoon etc. Probably one of the only things you won't be able to practice on the range is shooting up or down hill, but Point Blank may be able to help you there, or your experience in the Army.

And one of the better things about the range is its damn fine fun just bustin' caps and shooting, then of course having a beer or wee dram with your mates shooting "the bull" and telling one another lies and "warries". Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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Daveyboy
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Joined: Jan 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Vince, old chap...

Got to agree with you on every point. Drills especially. I take a pal out (never been in anything bigger than the cubs Very Happy ) bunny shooting and have had to teach him to know what state your rifle is in, how to carry, knowing that the safety is on or off, where to point it etc. Couldn't agree more.

I suppose it's that non-moving issue. You can get that drilled in too!

Living with a vegetarian doesn't help either. In seventeen years not once has she said "Honey, you couldn't go out and get some venison could you?" It all boils down to supply and demand.

Still, can't complain, you can hear a train coming...

D

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Handloader
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Joined: Aug 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

There are numerous types of practice. One can practice and perfect various shooting positions, for example, or one can concentrate on trigger pull, sling useage, etc. It can be static practice or active.

When I have range sessions, I have benefitted from defining beforehand what it is that I want to accomplish. Having a specific goal can forcus attention on the task at hand.

One type of practice we enjoy is rolling tires down the slope of a hill or at a cinder pit and trying to hit the cardboard center inserted in the tire. This can be and usually is a humbling thing! But, progress is made little by little and soon we can become adept at 100yd shots while the tires are bouncing and gaining speed.

At the area we use most for this excercise, the time the tire is in motion is normally under eight seconds. To be able to hit center @ 100yds more than once is good, but, hitting it twice or, even, three times can make your day.
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Daveyboy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Hi Handloader

Whose a clever boy then? Either i'd never thought of it like that or i'd forgotton.

Range days for me in the past used to be about putting as much lead down the range as possible. Now i'm a civvy it's about getting the best possible group - that's where the focus lies. And, surprise surprise, it's all done off a bipod - a bit like bench rest shooting.
Obviously then a bit of free shooting without rests, from kneeling, prone and upright with sticks is going to do it.

Silly of me but when you've been doing the same thing for so long you forget about the other stuff.

Cheers

David

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

I would put some practice into shooting in different positions... offhand, kneeling, elbow on knee etc etc. No offense but 100 yards is easily an offhand target with a bit of practice Smile

I used to shoot skeet with a .22 rimfire (threw them up against the hill in an old gravel pit) and with a slight bit of practice you can hit the birds going out and away. I like the rolling tire target thing too but IMO that could be alot of work hauling them back up the hill LOL



-DallanC
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

DallanC wrote:
I would put some practice into shooting . . . . I like the rolling tire target thing too but IMO that could be alot of work hauling them back up the hill LO
-DallanC

Smile That's why we have about 20 tires and a pickup truck. OTOH, lugging the tires back up the hill is less work that taking out a quarter elk in a backpack. Fortunately, the owner of the pit doesn't mind us storing the tires there for a few months at a time; he even has tried his hand at the game as well.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Handloader wrote:


One type of practice we enjoy is rolling tires down the slope of a hill or at a cinder pit and trying to hit the cardboard center inserted in the tire. This can be and usually is a humbling thing! But, progress is made little by little and soon we can become adept at 100yd shots while the tires are bouncing and gaining speed.

At the area we use most for this excercise, the time the tire is in motion is normally under eight seconds. To be able to hit center @ 100yds more than once is good, but, hitting it twice or, even, three times can make your day.

I like this "game". Unfortunately the only place we could do it out here is either on a specially constructed range or out in the bush. Luckily I know just the spot in the bush that can extend out to about 300m. Hmmm, food for thought there.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Flint54
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Cool Practice is very important, but PERFECT Practice is even more immportant. Take the time to use correct form and fundimentals when you practice. Always remember that you revert to what you practice in any time of crisis or excitement. So if you practice wrong you revert to doing things the wrong way. I always take the time to also use Field Positions when I go out shooting not only shooting off a bench. I will say though that for field targets I only use paper plates, sometimes I'll paint them with some kaki brown spray paint. If I can put all my shots on the plate at any given range I'll then feel confident enought to use the same shot in the field on an animal. Cool
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Daveyboy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Vince - your and Ozzie. I didn't think that you had any hills over there. Very Happy I thought that it was a bit more like "C'mon lads, all together..." and then you all ran together. After three... Laughing

As for Flint54 and you others, I quite agree and the paperplate idea is a good one. the point I was trying to draw your attention to was the fact that practising 'benchrest' style and shooting live are very different things. I was just a-wondering on how the rest of the world did this kind of stuff. Some of it is down to the resources that you've got. In the UK you can't just go out shooting. Even the very land that you own has to be vetted by a Firearms Licensing Officer {FLO} who permits you to shoot certain calibers. Non of this driving off into the ulu and letting rip! Shooting

All comments warmly appreciated. Razz

D

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Daveyboy wrote:
Vince - your and Ozzie. I didn't think that you had any hills over there. Very Happy I thought that it was a bit more like "C'mon lads, all together..." and then you all ran together. After three... Laughing

As for Flint54 and you others, I quite agree and the paperplate idea is a good one. the point I was trying to draw your attention to was the fact that practising 'benchrest' style and shooting live are very different things. I was just a-wondering on how the rest of the world did this kind of stuff. Some of it is down to the resources that you've got. In the UK you can't just go out shooting. Even the very land that you own has to be vetted by a Firearms Licensing Officer {FLO} who permits you to shoot certain calibers. Non of this driving off into the ulu and letting rip! Shooting

All comments warmly appreciated. Razz

D

Gidday DB. Oh we have hills mate....bloody big ones....sorry forgot you poms don't like that word anymore, bloody. Our highest mountain is only 7800' high, but the Great Dividing range that runs from North to South along the East Coast has some of the wildest country you are ever likely to encounter.

I agree with you on the paper plate idea...its good, gonna have to try thay one. As for just disappearing off into the ulu and shooting...it don't happen over here, well not just anywhere. A property needs to be at least 40 acres to be approved for shooting. Luckily most shooting properties are "considerably bigger" than that. The place I shoot on is about 4000 acres. Have been invited out to another one that is about 3 times that size.

Anyway, I don't see benchrest shooting as being good for anything other than load development of hunting loads, although you don't need to benchrest to do that.

I think what er have all been saying, well me anyway, is that either on the range or in the field you practice the same sort of things....the basics. Without the basics you don't have the foundation to build your skills. And like everything else those basics need to be practiced and confirmed.

Looking at all the posts I can see that the basics consists of:

trigger control
sight alignment
shooting positions
setting a goal/standard to attain that day
changing targets, ie moving, smaller (plates or clays)
using alternate rests
offhand shooting (VERY important)
shoot at varying ranges
practice, practice, practice

Flint54 wrote:
Practice is very important, but PERFECT Practice is even more immportant. Take the time to use correct form and fundimentals when you practice. Always remember that you revert to what you practice in any time of crisis or excitement. So if you practice wrong you revert to doing things the wrong way. I always take the time to also use Field Positions when I go out shooting not only shooting off a bench.

As Flint says above, the type of practice is also important, as is adhering to and the fundamentals. Identify any mistakes....use a mate to help you here as others will often see mistakes that you don't....and correct those mistakes so they don't become ingrained.

Once you have all this in place the only difference between shooting at the range and shooting in the field will be the target. In the field they are usually bigger and the surrounds are more picturesque.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Daveyboy wrote:
Vince - your and Ozzie. I didn't think that you had any hills over there. Very Happy I thought that it was a bit more like "C'mon lads, all together..." and then you all ran together. After three... Laughing

As for Flint54 and you others, I quite agree and the paperplate idea is a good one. the point I was trying to draw your attention to was the fact that practising 'benchrest' style and shooting live are very different things. I was just a-wondering on how the rest of the world did this kind of stuff. Some of it is down to the resources that you've got. In the UK you can't just go out shooting. Even the very land that you own has to be vetted by a Firearms Licensing Officer {FLO} who permits you to shoot certain calibers. Non of this driving off into the ulu and letting rip! Shooting

All comments warmly appreciated. Razz

D

Gidday DB. Oh we have hills mate....bloody big ones....sorry forgot you poms don't like that word anymore, bloody. Our highest mountain is only 7800' high, but the Great Dividing range that runs from North to South along the East Coast has some of the wildest country you are ever likely to encounter.

I agree with you on the paper plate idea...its good, gonna have to try thay one. As for just disappearing off into the ulu and shooting...it don't happen over here, well not just anywhere. A property needs to be at least 40 acres to be approved for shooting. Luckily most shooting properties are "considerably bigger" than that. The place I shoot on is about 4000 acres. Have been invited out to another one that is about 3 times that size.

Anyway, I don't see benchrest shooting as being good for anything other than load development of hunting loads, although you don't need to benchrest to do that.

I think what er have all been saying, well me anyway, is that either on the range or in the field you practice the same sort of things....the basics. Without the basics you don't have the foundation to build your skills. And like everything else those basics need to be practiced and confirmed.

Looking at all the posts I can see that the basics consists of:

trigger control
sight alignment
shooting positions
setting a goal/standard to attain that day
changing targets, ie moving, smaller (plates or clays)
using alternate rests
offhand shooting (VERY important)
shoot at varying ranges
practice, practice, practice

Flint54 wrote:
Practice is very important, but PERFECT Practice is even more immportant. Take the time to use correct form and fundimentals when you practice. Always remember that you revert to what you practice in any time of crisis or excitement. So if you practice wrong you revert to doing things the wrong way. I always take the time to also use Field Positions when I go out shooting not only shooting off a bench.

As Flint says above, the type of practice is also important, as is adhering to and the fundamentals. Identify any mistakes....use a mate to help you here as others will often see mistakes that you don't....and correct those mistakes so they don't become ingrained.

Once you have all this in place the only difference between shooting at the range and shooting in the field will be the target. In the field they are usually bigger and the surrounds are more picturesque.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13124
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Target practise and hunting Reply with quote

Daveyboy wrote:
Vince - your and Ozzie. I didn't think that you had any hills over there. Very Happy I thought that it was a bit more like "C'mon lads, all together..." and then you all ran together. After three... Laughing

As for Flint54 and you others, I quite agree and the paperplate idea is a good one. the point I was trying to draw your attention to was the fact that practising 'benchrest' style and shooting live are very different things. I was just a-wondering on how the rest of the world did this kind of stuff. Some of it is down to the resources that you've got. In the UK you can't just go out shooting. Even the very land that you own has to be vetted by a Firearms Licensing Officer {FLO} who permits you to shoot certain calibers. Non of this driving off into the ulu and letting rip! Shooting

All comments warmly appreciated. Razz

D

Gidday DB. Oh we have hills mate....bloody big ones....sorry forgot you poms don't like that word anymore, bloody. Our highest mountain is only 7800' high, but the Great Dividing range that runs from North to South along the East Coast has some of the wildest country you are ever likely to encounter.

I agree with you on the paper plate idea...its good, gonna have to try thay one. As for just disappearing off into the ulu and shooting...it don't happen over here, well not just anywhere. A property needs to be at least 40 acres to be approved for shooting. Luckily most shooting properties are "considerably bigger" than that. The place I shoot on is about 4000 acres. Have been invited out to another one that is about 3 times that size.

Anyway, I don't see benchrest shooting as being good for anything other than load development of hunting loads, although you don't need to benchrest to do that.

I think what er have all been saying, well me anyway, is that either on the range or in the field you practice the same sort of things....the basics. Without the basics you don't have the foundation to build your skills. And like everything else those basics need to be practiced and confirmed.

Looking at all the posts I can see that the basics consists of:

trigger control
sight alignment
shooting positions
setting a goal/standard to attain that day
changing targets, ie moving, smaller (plates or clays)
using alternate rests
offhand shooting (VERY important)
shoot at varying ranges
practice, practice, practice

Flint54 wrote:
Practice is very important, but PERFECT Practice is even more immportant. Take the time to use correct form and fundimentals when you practice. Always remember that you revert to what you practice in any time of crisis or excitement. So if you practice wrong you revert to doing things the wrong way. I always take the time to also use Field Positions when I go out shooting not only shooting off a bench.

As Flint says above, the type of practice is also important, as is adhering to and the fundamentals. Identify any mistakes....use a mate to help you here as others will often see mistakes that you don't....and correct those mistakes so they don't become ingrained.

Once you have all this in place the only difference between shooting at the range and shooting in the field will be the target. In the field they are usually bigger and the surrounds are more picturesque.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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