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Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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stefan
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Joined: Feb 10, 2011
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Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:23 pm    Post subject: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

I have been helped by a friend to take these charges by using the quick load program. Me and my friend started to load these cartridges 3 gr below peak load. These charges are made on the Swift A-Frame and Wood Leigh bullets. I have test fired these charges also. I hope you understand my translation from Swedish to English.



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/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
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stefan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

As you can see that we just, we just used regular bullets from Swift and Wood Leigh and no bullets from Barnes copper bullets (TSX).

I have had one snack with a gunsmith here in Sweden and he says that copper bullets wear out barrels faster than bullets that Swift, Wood Leigh, and others.


Can I hear your arguments on this point of view on the copper bullets. Are There Any of you who Have Such experience???

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/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke


Last edited by stefan on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

I don't think that "non-woven" part translated right...

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

stefan wrote:
a gunsmith here in Sweden and he says that copper bullets wear out a barrel faster than normal non-woven balls Swift, Wood Leigh, and others.

That's worth throwing the BS flag! That's a 100-yard penalty1!! Lead-core bullets are copper too so the barrel sees copper to steel friction regardless of the bullet type. If anything, a TSX or GMX bullet would cause less wear because they are banded resulting in less copper-to-steel area.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

Stefan and Slim,
The jacket on lead core bullets is "guilding metal" - a brass or bronze alloy which is harder than copper but it is also very thin compared to a homogenous copper bullet. The newer banded copper bullets have relieved the added barrel stress as is evident in the lower copper fouling. Neither bullet will have an advantage where barrel wear is concerned with proper maintenance.
Copper bullets do not shoot well in all firearms - such as my 30-06 - but I can shoot jacketed bullets very well. Lead bullets without jackets are limited to a number of factors that include velocity and bore size/condition. I need to try paper patched bullets in my 30-06 just to see if they will shoot.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
The newer banded copper bullets have relieved the added barrel stress as is evident in the lower copper fouling. Neither bullet will have an advantage where barrel wear is concerned with proper maintenance.

Concur, I have only a trace of copper on my .270 Win after 80 rounds of Barnes TSX and Hornady GMX.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

PaulS

I tried 3 years ago with paper patched bullets in my m700 /06 and did not get satisfactory results as far as accuracy. But I may have to try again after reading this guys way.

Paper Patched Bullets

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

Ok, Paul, why not get a era rifle if you are going to shot bullets like that? Or am I missing something about the rewards of using those type of bullets?
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

very interesting article it sounds reasonably simple. I wonder how it would work in all those slug guns 12ga etc you fellas are using, would it help with the leading?

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

Some years back I bought some .58 cal "Minies" at a gun show. When I tried to shoot them I discovered that they are WAY too hard. I thought about trying to paper patch them to see if they'd work that way. Yet another project for this year...

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Mike

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
Ok, Paul, why not get a era rifle if you are going to shot bullets like that? Or am I missing something about the rewards of using those type of bullets?

Well, I don't really like "period guns" and I have a need to load some light loads for my 30 and 35 caliber rifles. My back doesn't like the recoil of "modern" amo since my accident 6 years ago and I have a stock of lead that I can use to make bullets with - so I may try paper patching some bullets for my larger guns - maybe even for my pistols on a lark.
I am in the process of making a set of rolling block 45 dualing pistols and it would be "period correct" to have them paper patched too.
I just like to complicate my life a little now and then.

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Paul
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So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
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NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

Seems to me that it would be advantageous for you to get your head together with Gelan Paul.

Gelan has done significant lad development on lighter cast loads for his .30 Whisper and 45.70...and was investigating paper patching not that long ago as well. Just a thought mate.

On a different note...you seem to have a good attitude towards your disability mate. The power of positive thinking is not to be overlooked. I saw a great example of this over the last two weekends at the Trap shooting club I belong to over here. One of the members competed in a 150 round competition, faring very well I might add, and also involved himself in some of the administrative duties. The following weekend he also shot about five rounds of Trap. What is the significance of this...well the guy is in his early 60's, has asbestosis, diabetes and asthma. This guy's attitude is..."there is nothing I can do about the problems I have, so I'm damned if I am going to let them stop me from enjoying life to the fullest...even if I only have 5 - 10 years left at best. I was humbled when I consider the relatively minor problems I am suffering.

So hang in there mate...your positive attitude will help you achieve more than you can imagine. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

Thanks Vince! I am doing a lot of new things - writing my first book (to be published), still working on my 66 Mustang, building the occasional auto for the older Fords and walking to stay mobile.
I can beat this - I got 50 or so years to do it in...(just a kid at 60)

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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slimjim
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Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7148
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

PaulS, those are some great activities. I've got a 60 MGA sitting in my garage just waiting for me to slow down a bit.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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stefan
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Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Max Loads for 8 mm and 416 rem mag Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
I don't think that "non-woven" part translated right...

The text is edited. It had slipped in a typo.

I hope I've got a better translation now.

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
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