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How good is the .17?
By Popular Demand: Discussions related to Varmint Hunting
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
didn't I tell you that I collect .22's?

Aloys, I bet you have an entire room, or maybe 2, dedicated just to hold your firearms. It would be great to see a gallery ... after your hunting season. A good winter project.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

SingleShotLover wrote:
Don't dismiss the accuracy of a good .22 LR...even an auto.

Ok, SingleShotLover, what barrel did you use on your Ruger 10/22? I've got too much, did I say too much, .22LR ammo to consume to switch to another rimfire. But I sure could use a different barrel to improve my accuracy.



ruger 10-22 20-shot groups lo res.jpg
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ruger 10-22 20-shot groups lo res.jpg


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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

Sorry SlimJim ...was out of town for the holiday. I got your message and replied. anything I can do to help just let me know. By the way, without switching from a factory barrel on other 10/22s I've been able to get around 3/4" groups at 50 yards without a lot of trouble and ammo research. There are lots of trick to tune the 10/22. they all want to shoot...just need a little help sometimes. But that's where the fun is!

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

Thanks, SSLover! Looks like I'll start having some fun!

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bracer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

There are a lot of after market parts for the Ruger 10-22 .There are some serious 10-22 shooters at www.rimfirecentral.com I got a Ruger 10-22 T some years ago. I worked on the trigger pull and put it into a thumbhole target stock. Mounted a Burris 6X target scope on it. I used it to shoot prairie dog pups with it untill I got the 17 rimfire rifles. The 17s gave me more shooting range than the 22 LR round. I consider the 22 RF round fine for shooting cotten tail rabbits and squirels and plinking tin can targets .

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

We have 2 10-22's, they are like a$$holes, every one has one. some of them stink and some dont. Smile

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

I'm going to have fun making mine smell pretty again.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
I'm going to have fun making mine smell pretty again.

Many good things don't have a nice smell... Smile
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I'm going to have fun making mine smell pretty again.

Many good things don't have a nice smell... Smile


Haha Haha Haha Haha

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Yotehntr
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

LOL....ya'll just ain't right!!!


jamesbe2759 wrote:
I'm thinking of buying a .17 cal and was wondering if it is really that much better for preds than my 10-22. I'd welcome your opinions/advice.
Thanks

I personally if held to a rimfire would prefer a 22mag. I ran across a good comparison between the 17hmr and 22 mag... CLICK HERE I'll copy/paste the most interesting part of the article here:

Killing power

Assuming a proper hit in the animal's vitals, killing power is determined by a complex of factors including (but not entirely limited to) the width and depth of the wound channel. This, in turn, is influenced by bullet energy, frontal area, sectional density, and expansion characteristics. In other words, it is a complicated matter that is still not entirely understood.

There have been many systems devised to compare the killing power of rifle cartridges, most of them by people with a pre-existing bias of one sort or another. The best and least biased of such systems of which I am aware is the Optimum Game Weight (OGW) formula devised by Edward A. Matunas and published in the Lyman 47th Reloading Handbook. Matunas tried to account for a variety of factors, not just caliber or kinetic energy or momentum, the major failing of most killing power formulas.

Like all such systems, OGW is not perfect. I find that it seems to be most reliable when dealing with mainstream centerfire rifle cartridges on the order of the .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, .30-06, and .338 Win. Mag. Since we are dealing with much less powerful small bore cartridges in this comparison, I suggest that we view the following OGW information as a comparative tool, not as an absolute guide. That, in any case, is usually the best approach when dealing with killing power formulas.

The OGW figure estimates the optimum live weight of the animal for which the cartridge is best suited at any given range. Note that the OGW weight is not the biggest animal the cartridge will kill, merely the optimum size animal for that range. Also note that individual bullet performance is not a factor in calculating optimum game weight; it is assumed that the hunter will choose an appropriate bullet for the job at hand. And it is also assumed that the bullet will hit the heart/lung area of the animal; brain or spine shots would obviously result in much higher OGW numbers, but they are not considered. Here are our two best long range loads for OGW comparison:

* .17 HMR, 17 grain = 7 pounds at muzzle, 5 pounds at 50 yards, 3 pounds at 100 yards, 2 pounds at 150 yards, 1 pound at 200 yards.

* .22 WMR, 40 grain = 17 pounds at muzzle, 9 lbs. at 50 yards, 5 pounds at 100 yards, 3 pounds at 150 yards, 2 pounds at 200 yards.

The OGW figures indicate that the .22 WMR has superior potential killing power at all ranges. We could summarize by saying that the .22 WMR has about as much killing power at 100 yards as the .17 HMR does at 50 yards. Since its MPBR is limited to about 125 yards, the .22 WMR is probably the better choice for large varmints and small predators within the limit of its MPBR. Beyond the MPBR, accurate bullet placement becomes increasingly difficult as the range increases, and bullet placement is the most important factor in actual killing power.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

Yotehntr, what if you compare the price of a .22 WMR round with the .22 Hornet? Then you can reload... I love Sierra's 45 grainer in my Hornet and in the .222 Rem. Shall we compare the killing power of both rounds with the .22 WMR?
For safety reasons? That 45 grainer just disappears when you hit someting, sure in the .222 Rem and even in the Hornet.

For your info: my .22 Hornet is an Anschütz Model 1432, the .222 Rem is a very cheap Baikal, both single shot.
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Yotehntr
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

I hope I didn't mis-represent myself there... I didn't write all that info. Just found it on the .net. Aloysius I'd personally take a 22 hornet over a rimfire any day of the week... the 222 is even better. I'm guessing the rimfire question arises often because at least in my state (TN) On WMA's (Wild life managment areas. they restrict folks to the rimfire rifles if it isn't deer season. Folks know they are going to be under gunned for coyote sized game and just want to know what is the better choice of the rimfires. Wink

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

We do live in a strange world. Here in North-Belgium rimfires are no longer allowed to hunt, even not for varmints. In our South (and the rest of Europe!) rimfire rounds are still allowed for the smaller game (uptill about fox-size). And in your state you are only allowed to use a rimfire when deer isn't open...
I think that's government: they even don't search a stick to beat a dog, they just make strange laws so they have new sticks...

And you're right. When magnumitis didn't catch you, a .22 Hornet can surprise you every day of the week. But I think the appreciations of the little ones come with the years.
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

Aloysius:
What in the world was the reason behind banning the rimfires for small game where you live?

I use the 22LR for all varmits here up to fox, when the shot is placed right, it's a quick kill.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: How good is the .17? Reply with quote

stupidity and a nice step to take all the guns away from the citizens.

In our hunting laws we had a minimum caliber for bullets: 5,6 mm + a minimum energy level for roedeer of 980 J at 100 m. (for larger game 6.5 mm and 2200 J at 100 m). Now the funny thing was that we could shoot a roebuck with a .222 Rem (25.4 mm x .222 = 5.6388 mm) but we where not allowed to use a 22-250 (25.4 mm x .22 = 5.588 mm). Even when they use the same bullet and even when the energy of the 22-250 is far superior.
But we could still use the .22 LR on crows etc. because they where not covered in our hunting laws. Don't laugh, but shooting crows is forbiden by european laws. Every year we have to write letters to the government to fortify our farmer's complaints and then we can fight against crows etc.

On one hand they want to clarify this caliberstupidity and on the other hand, gunlaws changed and they want to destroy all these guns everybody kept behind his door (mostly .22 LR's because they don't make that much noise).
Result: they've stolen a lot of rifles from decent people (max. penalty for breaking the gunlaws is 25 000 euro!) and all rimfire forbiden for hunting (but still allowed in our South, frenchspeaking part!). And they also changed the rules on the fight against crows (and other birds): only shotgun (from cal 12 till cal 24, NOT cal 28, 32 or 36!) allowed. So here only the shotgun, no bullets anymore and this was the last application of the .22 LR in 'hunting-matters'. I too loved the .22 LR for rabbits and crows.
The smallest caliber I'm allowed to use (on fox, rabbits and dove, NOT for hare or phaisants!) is the .22 Hornet. But our .22 Hornet has not enough energy to be used on roedeer.

They wanted that nasty .22 away from the people and they are winning. On the other hand, some other forces would like to limit competition shooters to the .22 LR and take the heavy calibers out of their hands...

Do you still think YOU have stupid laws and a sh.t government?

PS: but we can shoot that fox with a .50 BMG, there are only minimums, not maximums Smile

And sorry I cannot say a decent thing about the .17 because such a small thing is very difficult to find in Flanders, since only a competitionshooter might have an application for it.
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