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.22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Here is a quick slugging demo on You tube.

www.youtube.com/user/I...rFaJlUVs1Y

There are many other guides for slugging a barrel floating around on the net..

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Ok, gelandangan, I gave it a whirl. I could get the .22LR bullets out of their cases easy enough if I placed the bullet lightly in a vise and cranked the case 90 degrees to the chucks. I did the Ruger 10/22 first with the copper-plated bullet. I oiled the barrel as you suggested. I tapped it in using a blunt punch and then pushed it through with an old cleaning rod. The Ruger was tight at the muzzle and at the chamber but in the middle it almost felt like the bullet was clanging around. It was floating free with no resistance what so ever. Ruger slug was 0.2216. I used the plain lead bullet for the S&W M&P. It took a light tap with the rubber mallet all the length of the barrel. Slug measured 0.2218. These were maximum thickness as there were spots that the bullet measured less. I don’t think the 40gr bullets are big enough to do this correctly with. Maybe 60gr bullets from the Aguila rounds.

Anyway, I learned something important by doing this. My Ruger’s barrel is not worth keeping as verified with these 20-shot groups I did yesterday. Crying or Very sad

Time for a new barrel, new stock too! Very Happy



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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks for the report Slim!

Yah.. that definitely fits to my reckoning..
the ruger at 18 inch obtained similar velocity as the 20 inch marlin.
Obviously the barrel friction is much less on the shorter one (ruger).

Although I am wondering how the ruger slug got to be smaller .2216 than the S&W .2218 and the Marlin .222 ?
It must be that YOUR ruger barrel have a "choke" point near the muzzle and large bore near the breech..

You can test the theory by slugging the barrel in reverse.
This is not as easy, you need to "expand" the slug in the OILED barrel near the breech (just forward of the chamber) by squeezing it between a couple of dowels,
and tap the dowel with a hammer until the slug show slight resistance to move when pushed.
then proceed slugging while pushing from the breech.
If the resistance increases as it moves forward then you have a tapered barrel.
If it is even then suddenly increases resistance, then you have a choke point.

you can slightly increase the diameter of the slug (in this case the .22 projectile) by tapping it length wise with a hammer.
Um.. as the projectile get shorter, its diameter will get thicker.


Aside,

You apparently can improve the accuracy of 22LR by using something called "paco 22 accurizer" or "ACU-RZR"
www.gunblast.com/Paco2.htm
a tool that is used to expand .22 LR projectiles.. quite an interesting tool that one is.
It would even make a solid projectile to a HOLLOW POINT!! using the "NASTINOSE" tool.

However, I would say that it take a brave person to use this tool.. (bash a live .22LR inside a barrel? *shiver* )
I would not do it for I am truly a chook at heart.. strewth!

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

NASTINOSE man that sounds naaaasty I still get bored sometimes and poke a 2" nail in the end of hollow points and open em up even more they work great on big hares it seems to turn a standard round into the performance of the super fast ones eg stinger, yellow jackets. or maybe just makes you feel better.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:43 am    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

SJ, I think I have to send you a few pictures soon. You don't know that method to flatten the top of a .22 LR round with a file? I get my best groupes most of the time with a Swartklip Subsonic of which I filed the top flat, using some small home-made tool as guidance. This flat nose makes groupsize smaller + increases a lot the killing-effect on small game, birds and varmints.
A pity that the S-African company Swartklip stopped producing these .22's, they are very good AND very cheap.


Edit: I also do this method on .22 WMR and even .22 Hornet rounds, but be carefull with the last one when using jacketed bullets, when the base of a FMJ bullet is open, you could blow the lead out of the jacket (and worst case: the jacket could obstruct the next bullet inside the barrel...)
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

gelandangan, that is an interesting tool. I think I'd use a vice to press-form the bullets. I saw an Internet article yesterday about a guy that makes barrels that constrict the bullet. You fire a .22LR but it comes out the muzzle as a .20 or .17 with a better BC and penetration. Can't find the article this morning.

Aloys, since you are a collector, do you have one of these transforming barrels?

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Hey, I'm not a 'collector', I just like to buy things I love and I'm not able to part from them.
And I believe in sizing bullets, but I don't like to do this inside a barrel, too much fluctuating components. And I think when you get to know the possibilities of a .22 LR round, you don't need these funny calibers anymore as long as they are not cheaper than the .22.

By the way: you got the pictures?
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks for the pictures Aloys. Here are a couple for others to see your tool for making a flat nose bullet and your set-trigger .22. Did you make this tool yourself? Do you have any before and after groups to show the accuracy improvement?



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"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

I never take a camera to the range. You should see my rifles when a little wind is blowing and all the sand seems to try and hide into my guns...
And maybe it's also my mind, but I think that the flat nose decreases my groupesize almost 50 %. And now we are not longer allowed to use the .22 LR for hunting (varmints etc.) in Flanders (=the North of Belgium), but with a round nose it's even not always enough to do headshots, rabbits f.e. will still run into their shelter. Such a flat nose will help to transmit its energy to the animal, so where ever you hit it, it's in the pocket.
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

I know this is not exactly on topic but you might be interested in this; Some 55 different types of .22 ammo were tested, using a highly-accurate Swiss-made Bleiker rifle, with a 2-stage trigger. All ammo varieties were tested at 50 yards, 75 yards, and 100 yards, shooting five, 5-shot groups at each distance. Click This to see the targets. Otherwise here's the results; (Eley has discontinued some of these)

The following are the average of 5 5-shot groups at 50 yards.

0.162 Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS
0.164 Lapua Midas Plus
0.177 Lapua Polar Biothelon
0.187 Eley Match EPS
0.193 Eley Match
0.203 Lapua Midas M
0.215 Lapua Center X
0.216 Western Value Pack
0.229 Lapua Signum
0.241 Lapua Master L
0.243 Eley Pistol Match
0.256 Olin Ball
0.256 Akah X-Zone
0.261 Lapua Midas L
0.261 Lapua Master M
0.263 Eley Tenex Semi Auto
0.270 Lapua Super Club
0.272 Eley Tenex
0.303 Lapua Standard Plus
0.312 CCI Standard Velocity
0.319 RWS R 50
0.319 Eley Standard
0.328 SK High Velocity
0.339 Eley Club Xtra
0.340 Winchester T22
0.356 Federal Champion
0.362 Eley Subsonic HP
0.371 CCI Mini Mag
0.376 Federal American Eagle
0.377 Norinco Target
0.380 Sellier And Bellot Club
0.384 Eley Club
0.387 Eley Sport
0.388 Totem
0.392 Swartklip Match Trainer
0.398 Federal Gold Medal
0.403 Swartklip HV
0.409 Eley Match Xtra Plus
0.424 Sellier And Bellot Standard
0.443 Remington Target
0.461 Lapua Crow HP
0.475 Eley Silhouex
0.479 Magtech
0.498 Eley High Velocity
0.513 Winchesdter Super X
0.516 Kassnar Concorde
0.539 CCI Blazer
0.560 Winchester Supreme Pistol
0.576 Norinco Pistol Revolver
0.593 SK Standard
0.611 Sellier And Bellot HP
0.626 SK Standard HP
0.686 Logo HV
0.956 Pobjeda Target



Suz

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, Suz. Now I need to find a barrel for my 10/22 that will shoot close to this accuracy.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Consistent agg's under .5 is a pretty tall order .................

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Well it has been a year and 3 months since I started this thread by taking a hacksaw to my Marlin 39A to shorten the barrel. The original 24" barrel made the gun too front heavy and not fun to carry around. By cutting the barrel off in 2" chunks, I determined that I wasn't loosing any velocity potential with a shorter barrel with typical .22LR ammo. I certainly wasn't making any progress on my own as I had not worked on the rifle for over a year. So I took it to the local gunsmith to finish the barrel, install the front sight and move the dovetail back 4 inches to hold the magazine. He did a nice job. I shortened the magazine. Here is the almost finished product. I say almost because I had planned to shorten the magazine tube a tad more so it was back a bit further from the muzzle, but it doesn't look so bad for the moment. Definitely going to go out and shoot it some before I do anything more to it.

Yes, chambered, that is a Leupold 2.5x Scout Scope mounted on it. I love shooting two-eyes open and having a bit of magnification for my old eyes.



marlin 39a with barrel shorten from 24-inches to 19.5-inches.jpg
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

Neat Slim! I look forward to hearing about how it shoots.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: .22LR Velocity vs Barrel Length - Take 2 Reply with quote

still looks very pretty.
I would be proud to carry/use it.

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