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why???
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:40 pm    Post subject: why??? Reply with quote

how come the reloading manuals have .223 load data and then mini14 .223 loads that are quite a bit lighter/softer???

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

I'm guessing that it has to do with pressure tolerances. Most semi-autos have a lower pressure maximum than bolt action or single shot rifles do simply because of the nature of construction and design. Since there are no appreciable moving parts in bolt or single shot rifles (at least during the shot and pressure curve period) they can tolerate much higher pressures than firearms that rely on a specific range of pressures to operate.

A good case in point would be the .280 Remington. Most loading manuals are a little on the light side of SAAMI pressures due to the fact that early on Remington was pushing it in a semi-auto design. The same cartridge in "stronger" actions can be safely loaded to creep pretty close to 7MM Magnum territory.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
mini14 .223 loads that are quite a bit lighter/softer???

Where did you see that data? I didn't reload for my mini-14 but ran about everything through it you could buy off the shelf.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

I've never seen separate loads list specifically for Mini-14s but I know that the Hornady manual has two sections for .223. One for regular loads and another for "service rifle" loads. The "service rifle" data is for the heavier bullets. I've always fired any .223 load I had handy in my Mini-14.

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

wtf The service rifle load data was started for AR's-generally the latest ones have a faster rifling twist rate than most bolt guns,1 in 7" to 1 in 9",while the bolt guns usually run 1 in 10" to 1in 12".Also not knocking my many ar's but they have a action that can be ruined by warmer loads,while my many mini's(according to ruger) can take any commercially loaded ammo out there.They won't however even vouch for anything reloaded!Just liabilities and insurance stuff! Laughing

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

We've discussed it before but when shooting the autos that use gas to operate the action you have to be aware of the gas pressure at the gas port. If its too low it might not cycle the action, if too high it can slam it and cause unnecessary wear. This is controlled by the type of powder used.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

TRBLSHTR wrote:
not knocking my many ar's but they have a action that can be ruined by warmer loads,

I'm trying to make sense of this and may have misunderstood. Most AR actions are designed for 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo which is 10% or more hotter than commercial .223.

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
TRBLSHTR wrote:
not knocking my many ar's but they have a action that can be ruined by warmer loads,

I'm trying to make sense of this and may have misunderstood. Most AR actions are designed for 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo which is 10% or more hotter than commercial .223.
Very Happy True story SJ,I don't disagree at all.This is about reloads on the service rifle data,where rielly's reloader's law says-just a little past maximum and this thing will be a "short magnum"(or blown up)!I have always loaded within specs,and have found when I tried to approach maximum my accuracy went south.Sometimes slower is better!
BTW-the original ar-15 was developed using 4895 powder and I have used it in ar's and mini's both with excellent results.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

mulwex load booklet.
has 40grn pill with 18.5grns of2205 or 22.5grns 2207 doesnt have data for 2206 for mini 14
but for std .223 has40grn pill with22.5 of 2207 and 25,5 of 2206
so I guess its not a lesser load Embarassed just strange that different loads/powders for the same case just different rifles??? wtf
its got loads for all my calibers using 2206

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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
mulwex load booklet.

Hey mate....how old is the booklet you are looking at from Mulwex??? Mulwex load data is way out of date mate, in fact the manufacturer is on their second name (and owner) change since then...ADI and now Thales.

Thales list the following:

Bullet Wt.....Powder.....Min Load........Velocity........Max Load....Velocity

40gn............AR2205.......18.0...............3190 fps........20.0.............3545 fps
40gn............AR2207.......20.5...............3145 fps........22.5.............3600 fps
40gn............AR2206.......24.8...............3240 fps........27.5 C..........3590 fps
(C = Compressed Load)

The current Handloaders' Guide only lists 223 Remington (5.56mm x 45) and makes no differentiation in regards to .223 and the Mini 14.

ADI/Thales Handloaders Guide

Cheers, Vince

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

1986 so yea I guess its a tad old Embarassed the ar2205 and AR2213 data was new when published. the loads from this booklet I have used are fine and YES I have checked them with as many other sorses as I can find before loading. I have a Nick Harvey ,2 nosler and a sierra manual winchester booklets and ADI booklet.I just found it wierd that data was different.
Ive not seen thales on a shelf here yet. Shocked

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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

You don't need to find it on the shelf mate...its a free download from the net.

Here ya go...this link takes you straight to the Handloaders Guide.

ADI/Thales Handloaders' Guide 5th Edition

On the page there is also a link to download the booklet as a .pdf document.

Personally, I find it easier to download it to my computer, print out the page/s I am most likely to use (my calibres), and refer back to the computer if needed.

Cheers, Vince

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: why??? Reply with quote

ta have added to favourites..

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