Seperation of Church and State?

Grumulkin

[quote="Erny"]

Grumulkin wrote:

Roman Catholic churches. Just because the majority of people in a certain country belong to a particular religious organization doesn't mean other religions aren't allowed.

quote]
I would agree to the above statement with the exception of the Country of Malta, which i am a descendant of! Last time i looked, it has 365 churches, all Roman Catholics, no other religion exist or is tolerated in Malta as far as i know! Laughing

I don't know anything about Malta but I think you can tell a lot about a religion when they're in the majority; their true colors are shown. When they're in the majority, Muslims and Roman Catholics have a long history of intolerance of other religions. The reason churches in Mexico have to be deeded to the Mexican government is because the Roman Catholic church had glomed on to a bunch of land there and the populace got tired of it.

Erny · Member Joined: May 13, 2010 Posts: 130 Location: Brisbane

[quote="Grumulkin"]

Erny wrote:

Grumulkin wrote:

Roman Catholic churches. Just because the majority of people in a certain country belong to a particular religious organization doesn't mean other religions aren't allowed.

quote]
I would agree to the above statement with the exception of the Country of Malta, which i am a descendant of! Last time i looked, it has 365 churches, all Roman Catholics, no other religion exist or is tolerated in Malta as far as i know! Laughing

I don't know anything about Malta but I think you can tell a lot about a religion when they're in the majority; their true colors are shown. When they're in the majority, Muslims and Roman Catholics have a long history of intolerance of other religions. The reason churches in Mexico have to be deeded to the Mexican government is because the Roman Catholic church had glomed on to a bunch of land there and the populace got tired of it.

Mate you do not have to tell me anything about the corruption of the R/C church! The things they did in the name of God, is a matter of historical fact, this includes murdering their own Popes. But having said that i can also state that God is in my heart & the hearts of good men & women not in a church! What this thread is about is not the separation of church from state, but separation of God from man & replacing it with the State!
The atheist bastard that came up with that plan has to be a Communist by stealth, as it's only Communism that put the state before God!
And i will finish up by stating!

GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND ALL THAT LIVE IN HER!!!!!!!!!!

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

The saying "In God we Trust" is not a Christian or any other religion reference. Its a reference to A god, not anyone's god. There is a difference.

The Christian God is the Tetragrammaton, which Christians share with the Jewish people. Allah, is the name of the Muslim God, Shiva the Hindu one, etc. God is just the general term for the supreme being in the English language.

Erny wrote:

Mate you do not have to tell me anything about the corruption of the R/C church! The things they did in the name of God, is a matter of historical fact

Guess what, more or less every Christian church has done the same thing over their history. Hell 90% of the new testament was written long after Jesus died so they can form a organized religion out of his teachings, then you had the power struggle that lead to the Great Schism in 1054, then all the other break ups of the church since.

I'm Christian, I believe in God, but I'll be damned before I follow another church or organized religion in my lifetime. I have come to terms with the fact I cannot stand any organized religion anymore, I actually vented on another forum I visit Shocked

... none the less the cat may as well be out of the bag here. So I got to ask one very fundamental question going to every Christian on this board ....

If your in Church A, your priest tells people going to Church B if they don't repent their sin of going to another church and convert they will never find God, while Church B is telling you and your family the same thing. So how the heck can you follow a church where believe in God, and the religion itself is not enough, one must believe in the Church as well? Confused

Dimitri

Aloysius

Dimitri, let me help you a little. All we christians believe in happened to the jews many years ago, not to us nor to Asterix or Obelix. So infact we have stolen our religion from the jews, we took it, made a nice story of it and said to the jews they are wrong now. Jews do believe that the Christ still has to be born...
So how can one take a part of somebody's religeon, change the story a little and then say "I'm right, you're totally wrong!" ?

For myself: I have problems with the circus in every religeon. Circus means doing stuff, not the thinking nor the acts from inside. I don't like such shows nor the marketing to sell it.

Erny · Member Joined: May 13, 2010 Posts: 130 Location: Brisbane

Hi Dimitri & Aloysius.
Yeah you are right, The Jews belong to the old Testament, An eye for an eye, (Torah) We belong to the new Testament, Love your enemies, etc! Yet the Pope, Cardinal, Bishops, etc, all wear Jewish scull caps, yet us peasants commit a sin if we wear a hat in church. I personally share both Testaments, IE... Slap my face and i will not turn my cheek, instead i will smash your face in, then forgive you and buy you a beer! I still believe that Sodomites will go straight to Hell regardless, and that we should stone them to death to help them on their way! No amount of soft-cock Political correctness will ever change my views! An interesting fact about the Koran, is that it was given to Muhammad in a cave, by the Angel Gabriel & that Muslims believe in Christ, they just don't believe he was the last & true Prophet! If you read the Koran you would find a lot of correlation between the new testament & old. I have no problems with the Koran or Muslims as i find the majority to be great & friendly people. i have problems with the militant Islam which is a total different ball park! I have seen & read where many Muslims protested that militant Muslims miss use the Koran for their own blood lust, and in a lot of cases these Muslums have payed with their lives for saying so!
To put it in a modern perspective, You can't blame all the good Germans (And there were plenty) for the Nazis!

Back to the guts of this thread, every nation in history that has put State before "GOD" has fallen. Russia for one is a good example!
Cheers erny!

Grumulkin

Dimitri wrote:

If your in Church A, your priest tells people going to Church B if they don't repent their sin of going to another church and convert they will never find God, while Church B is telling you and your family the same thing. So how the heck can you follow a church where believe in God, and the religion itself is not enough, one must believe in the Church as well? Confused

Dimitri

If I didn't believe my church was the "right one" I wouldn't belong to it but my church doesn't teach that those who go to other churches won't find God.

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

Grumulkin wrote:

If I didn't believe my church was the "right one" I wouldn't belong to it but my church doesn't teach that those who go to other churches won't find God.

That is good, I've never been to a Church that did not think that way. Even though many of them will not say it to their own membership but instead say what I was referring to, only to people who are visiting the church get this speech most of the time.

Dimitri

slimjim

Erny wrote:

Back to the guts of this thread, every nation in history that has put State before "GOD" has fallen.

Well stated. Where does that put the USA now? We are in the process of falling.

Erny · Member Joined: May 13, 2010 Posts: 130 Location: Brisbane

slimjim wrote:

Erny wrote:

Back to the guts of this thread, every nation in history that has put State before "GOD" has fallen.

Well stated. Where does that put the USA now? We are in the process of falling.

Hey Slimjim, Naw mate, i really can't see it happening! Just because there are a few radical nutjobs running around trying to change things, it will have to take the Government to outlaw God all together, and that will never happen as America and it's people are a God fearing & worshiping nation, they will revolt and bring down the Government before they allow that to happen! Russia fell to Godless Communism because all the Russian Christens were unarmed! This is not the case in America, thank God, & your Constitution!
Cheers Erny.

PaulS

The Roman nation fell after Christianity was installed as the state religion.
Religion, or the lack of it has less to do with the rise and fall of nations than the economics and demographics.

The only religious marriages that are accepted in England are the Church of England's. You can be put to death in Iran or Iraq for being a christian or spreading the Word.

Just because a majority of people belong to one major group of religions does not make that country a religious state. In the USA, the government cannot favor any religion over any other - that is what I am saying.
If God is just a description of deity and not the name of deity then we should maybe substitute the word "deity" on our money and in the pledge...
Whould that be acceptable? Not to many Christians because we use the word "God" as the name of the deity that we worship and we associate that same word to Christ. There are those who tak offense because their name for God is different. (in Islam, "there is one god and Allah is His name") so our sensibilities get in the way of using terminology that works for everyone.
The USA has never been, and will never be, a Christian nation. We were founded by a group of people who believed in some form of deity (most of them) but very few were actually what they would call Christians at that time. There were Deists, agnostics, Quakers, Masons, and protestants that were fleeing the religious tyrany of England. That is why there can never be a state religion in the USA, regardless of the numbers of members of any one, or any group, of religions.
If you group all the Christian religions together there are more Christians in the US than any other but those same religions are exclusive of each other to the point that some are not even called Christian by others.
God doesn't takes sides in political rivalries. God loves us all. Christ even accepted those who were shunned. I think we should try to emulate that more than anything.
Your opinion may be different - I can accept that and still believe you are on your way to everlasting salvation. You may be taking a different path than I am but in the end all paths of love lead to Heaven.

chambered221

For those that have found fault with the church, it's clergy or their methods.

Learn to put your faith where it belongs !!!
The man at the pulpit and his parishioners are sinners just the same. Putting your faith in mankind will only lead you to question what it is you believe in. The purpose of the church is to provide you and I with religious fellowship and guidance.

Erny · Member Joined: May 13, 2010 Posts: 130 Location: Brisbane

[quote="PaulS"]1...The Roman nation fell after Christianity was installed as the state religion.
Exactly! They fell because Cesar worshiped false deities, Homosexuality, Paedophilia, orgies,etc! As a matter of fact, the Jews on a smaller scale suffered the same fate, after Moses led them out of Egypt where they were given the ten Commandments etc, Remember the worship of the golden calf?

2..Religion, or the lack of it has less to do with the rise and fall of nations than the economics and demographics.
No2. Statement contradicts statement no 1!

3.The only religious marriages that are accepted in England are the Church of England's.
So i take it Religious freedom in England is only a token effort! No wonder the great empire is crumbling!
4.You can be put to death in Iran or Iraq for being a christian or spreading the Word.
In Days gone past, millions of Muslims were slaughtered for the same thing...IE.. the Holy wars!..Which lightly translate even today to real estate wars!

End of part 1,

Erny · Member Joined: May 13, 2010 Posts: 130 Location: Brisbane

Part 2
4.Just because a majority of people belong to one major group of religions does not make that country a religious state. In the USA, the government cannot favor any religion over any other - that is what I am saying.
God bless the Constitution, the freedom to worship!

5.If God is just a description of deity and not the name of deity then we should maybe substitute the word "deity" on our money and in the pledge...
Would that be acceptable? Not to many Christians because we use the word "God" as the name of the deity that we worship and we associate that same word to Christ. There are those who take offense because their name for God is different. (in Islam, "there is one god and Allah is His name") so our sensibilities get in the way of using terminology that works for everyone.
All that's good is God, all that's God is good!

3.The USA has never been, and will never be, a Christian nation. We were founded by a group of people who believed in some form of deity (most of them) but very few were actually what they would call Christians at that time. There were Deists, agnostics, Quakers, Masons, and protestants that were fleeing the religious tyranny of England. That is why there can never be a state religion in the USA, regardless of the numbers of members of any one, or any group, of religions.
If you group all the Christian religions together there are more Christians in the US than any other but those same religions are exclusive of each other to the point that some are not even called Christian by others.
God doesn't takes sides in political rivalries. God loves us all. Christ even accepted those who were shunned. I think we should try to emulate that more than anything.

All cars evolved from Henry ford's first car, and till today in principle they are still the same car!
l
Your opinion may be different - I can accept that and still believe you are on your way to everlasting salvation. You may be taking a different path than I am but in the end all paths of love lead to Heaven.[/quote]

Jesus said, my Father's mansion has many rooms, i now go to prepare a room for you!

Cheers..... May the Force be with you!... Erny

d_hoffman

wiersy111 wrote:

chambered221 wrote:

Maybe I'm not understanding what your saying.........but roughly 80% of our population describe themselves as Christian based believers !!!

Which brings me to the question as to why we are letting a minority change our general principals ???

Someone doesn't like the way we in scribe our currency........... don't use it !!!
Don't like the under God thing.........Go find another country to pledge to !!!
The Ten Commandments in the court room........Live by the laws of this land and you'll never see them hanging there !!!
You dislike prayer in school, sporting events and state functions......Don't attend them !!!
Don't like the way the Constitution is worded...........That makes you the enemy.......foreign or domestic !!!

And by the way, since ya'll got me started !!!

WE SPEAK ENGLISH IN THIS COUNTRY !!!

BINGO!!!!!

Well, I'm glad to see that there are atleast a couple of people here that think the way I do...

P.S. just one more thing... If there's anybody that don't like this country they can get the h&!! out!!!