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News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

Wow, I wasn't expecting this in the news. Interesting to see that this started in Northern CA with open carry. When did CA ever allow open carry? The article stated 43 states have open carry!?!? Can that be true? I guess in some places its ok to carry in the open, just not concealed.

Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate

Coffee chain Starbucks Corp. is sticking to its policy of letting customers carry guns where it's legal and said it does not want to be put in the middle of a larger gun-control debate.

The company's statement, issued Wednesday, stems from recent campaign by some gun owners, who have walked into Starbucks and other businesses to test state laws that allow gun owners to carry weapons openly in public places. Gun control advocates have protested.

The fight began heating up in January in Northern California and has since spread to other states and other companies, bolstered by the pro-gun group OpenCarry.org.

Some of the events were spontaneous, with just one or two gun owners walking into a store. Others were organized parades of dozens of gun owners walking into restaurants with their firearms proudly at their sides.

Now, gun control advocates are protesting the policy. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, launched a petition drive demanding that the company "offer espresso shots, not gunshots" and declare its coffeehouses "gun-free zones." And Wednesday, that group delivered 28,000 signatures to the coffee giant's headquarters in Seattle.

The group also held a press conference near Seattle's Pike Place Market, just a few yards away from where the first Starbucks cafe opened. Gun rights advocates showed up as well, some carrying handguns in holsters around their waists.

Brian Malte of the Brady Campaign said carrying guns intimidates and frightens people, and said the group thinks Starbucks will "do the right thing" and change its policy.

"They're putting their workers in harm's way by allowing people to carry guns into their stores, especially open carry," Malte said.

More than a dozen pro-gun supporters, some with Starbucks coffee cups in hand, chanted during the press conference, at points interrupting speakers.

"I think the (Brady campaign is) trying to strong-arm private businesses into banning the rights of the people," said Bev Carman of Everett, Wash. Carman held a sign that said: "Criminal Control not Gun Control."

Businesses can choose to ban guns from their premises. And Starbucks said Wednesday that it complies with local laws in the 43 states that have open-carry weapon laws.

"Were we to adopt a policy different from local laws allowing open carry, we would be forced to require our partners to ask law abiding customers to leave our stores, putting our partners in an unfair and potentially unsafe position," the company said in its statement.

It said security measures are in place for any "threatening situation" that might occur in stores.

Starbucks asked both gun enthusiasts and gun-control advocates "to refrain from putting Starbucks or our partners into the middle of this divisive issue."
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

I believe it was Fox News that reported on this last week !!!


The open carry thing is usually trumped with the threat of the "Inducing public panic" thing !!!

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BigBlue
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun de Reply with quote

In my state of PA. there has from time to time been arrests of people for open carry even though the state has no law against it. The actual charge is usually creating a disturbance. I believe that has since been knocked down in court, stating that open carry in and of itself is not reason enough to be charged with creating a disturbance. Usually the charges arose after the police received a call from some unaware citizen reporting an armed man or woman.
I had considered joining in and carrying openly, but I much prefer the edge that concealed carry gives me.
Don
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

NC has open carry but I've been told that we also have some sort of law about "going armed to the terror of the public". So far I haven't been able to find the law anywhere though...

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

So StarBucks is not just for Left-Wing yuppies? Shocked

Glad to hear that. Shocked

Personally if I could I'd take open carry any day over CCW. Watched too many cowboy movies, the villains are the ones that hide them. Kidding ofcourse, everyone should have a choice. I don't buy into the "painted target" thinking some pro-CCW people take when it comes to open carry though. I bet most people who CCW paint themselves as one wearing 5.11 clothing et al, or plainly not realizing their pistol prints more then they think. Plus John Wayne never hid his pistol so why would I? Very Happy

Dimitri

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun de Reply with quote

wtf Got something against 5.11........They do have inconspicuous gear designed for ccw and undercover work...... Not all their stuff screams "tactical"

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

chambered to you have some links to ccw gear you recommend?

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

I'm big on the 5.11 gear !!! 5.11 tactical

They are a little on the pricey side but their stuff is of quality and a great company to deal with.
I have a number of their shirts and plan to get one of their coats next fall/winter.
Try and find a police uniform shop in your area that carries the complete line, that way you'll be able to see the ccw stuff first hand.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun de Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
Not all their stuff screams "tactical"

It may not scream tactical but it does not have to. It is recognizable none the less as being 5.11 by both Police, Bad guys and other gun owners.

Their ads are plastered on every gun magazine, airsoft magazine, and outdoor magazine out there. Now if it was a small market, and a relatively unknown company and their clothing line sure it will not stand out. But when anyone who has picked up a magazine relating some way to guns has seen the stuff, its ability to stand out increases greatly.

Dimitri

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun de Reply with quote

Wow !!! You think that someone see's me wearing this shirt they automatically know it's a 5.11 and I'm carrying !!!

Covert Shirt

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44marty
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

I used to live in CT (now in MA). Travelling from CT to visit friends in Vermont required (to avoid hassles) putting on a jacket to travel through MA, since CT and VT mandated open carry, while MA was concealed.
I still don't see why it shouldn't be up to the individual - such public ignorance and media-driven hysteria.
The 5.11 gear looks great. Somehow I seem to keep buying more reloading components and guns instead of forking out the dollars for the 5.11 stuff, though.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

This was the headliner today in the Eugene Register Guard Interestingly a non-issue admittedly by the newspaper, but it was the headlines no-less.......trying to stir something up as always, trying to sensationalize and encite the general public. Open carry here in Oregon is unloaded!! May as well carry a squirt-gun. They're calling gun carriers troublemakers??? Newspapers are troublemakers!!

‘Open carry’ a no-show in state | A movement encouraging gun owners to wear them in public isn’t taking hold here, although it’s perfectly legal

By Greg Bolt

The Register-Guard

Appeared in print: Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010

A growing movement that has inspired some gun owners in other states to start openly wearing their sidearms in public doesn’t appear to have gained much steam in Oregon or Lane County, but some people may be surprised to learn that Oregon and local laws don’t prohibit it.

Known as the “open carry” movement, the trend has popped up recently in other parts of the country, most notably in usually laid-back Seattle. There, the near-ubiquitous Starbucks chain has found itself in the crossfire between gun rights and gun control advocates because it chooses not to ask gun-carrying customers to disarm before stopping in for a cappuccino, which open-carry advocates have made a point of doing.

Gun rights supporters in Oregon say they’ve heard of a few cases where people have been spotted sporting holstered weapons in public. But they say it hasn’t evolved into a full-fledged movement here the way it has in Washington, Michigan, Wisconsin and some other states.

“From the standpoint of what our priorities are, I’m supportive of people who want to carry openly as long as they recognize the liabilities, but it’s not No. 1 on my list,” said Kevin Starrett, director of the Oregon Firearms Federation. “That’s not very much on my screen.”

Tim Pitzer, president of the Oregon State Shooting Association, said he hasn’t heard of any open-carry organizing in Oregon and said his group isn’t promoting it. The OSSA is the state affiliate of the National Rifle Association.

“It’s not an issue; we don’t want to make it an issue,” Pitzer said. “Oregonians seem to be pretty responsible firearms owners.”

Open carry hasn’t popped up on the radar of Oregon’s gun control advocates either. But some are concerned about the movement. State Sen. Ginny Burdick, a Portland Democrat who has pushed gun control measures in the past, said she hopes it never catches on here.

“It’s just ridiculous for these extremists to be pushing this,” she said. “Most gun owners are not like this.”

While Oregon’s firearms laws can be somewhat arcane and difficult to follow, the state is considered a “traditional open-carry state,” according to the Web site opencarry.org, which is a clearinghouse for the movement. That means the state doesn’t flatly prohibit people from carrying guns openly, although it does impose some limits and allows cities and counties some latitude to pass their own ordinances restricting the practice.

For example, state law prohibits carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm in a public building unless a person has a concealed handgun permit. And even with such a permit, weapons are not allowed in a school, state courthouses or any federal building.

Also, state statutes do allow cities and counties to impose ordinances that prohibit or restrict the possession of loaded firearms in public places. About a half-dozen cities have done that, including Portland, Beaverton, Tigard, Oregon City, Salem and Independence, according to opencarry.org.

But those laws cannot bar people from carrying unloaded firearms in public. Nor do they apply to people who hold a concealed handgun permit. In fact, Starrett said, people with a permit to carry a concealed handgun also can carry a loaded one openly in cities that prohibit open carrying by those without a permit.

That’s because state law exempts people with such permits from any restrictions imposed by local governments. Starrett said that’s a nuance that isn’t well understood, even by police officers, who at times have incorrectly ordered gun owners to unload or put away their handguns.

But most communities in Oregon have no local laws that restrict or prohibit openly carrying a handgun in public places, beyond the rules set by the state. Eugene, Springfield and Lane County are among those with no local restrictions.

Private property owners — including retailers such as Starbucks — are free to set their own restrictions on the display of weaponry on their premises, just as they can require customers or visitors to wear a shirt or shoes or behave in a civilized manner.

Eugene Police Department spokeswoman Melinda Kletzok said although it’s unusual, police do get occasional reports of someone carrying a gun in public or questions from people who want to know if it’s legal.

About all police can do, she said, is caution people that they may cause undue alarm if they elect to pack a handgun openly.

“That’s their right to do so if they choose; there’s no city law prohibiting it,” Kletzok said. “But at the same time, we ask people to recognize that at a certain time or place that may make some people nervous.”

For some in the open-carry movement, that’s the point. Supporters believe carrying guns openly might upset some people at first, but ultimately it will reduce anxiety about guns by showing that gun owners are responsible, normal citizens.

“There are a group of people who believe strongly that open carry is a positive movement on a number of levels,” Starrett said. “Primarily, it’s just getting people accustomed to the idea that a civilian with a firearm isn’t necessarily dangerous or crazy or something like that.”

Open-carry advocate Gray Peterson sees that as one of the principles of the movement. Peterson, who does research for opencarry.org, is a former Oregon resident who now lives in Washington but still has a concealed handgun permit in Oregon.

Peterson said carrying a gun openly “shows us as not these dangerous people that the Brady campaign and their allies and what some parts of the movie industry portray gun owners to be,” he said in an e-mail that referred to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a gun control advocacy group.

He also said a gun on the hip can help break down stereotypes about gun owners. Peterson said he is a gay man and a political progressive, and that by being an open-carry supporter he can start people thinking about civil liberties beyond the Second Amendment.

But gun control advocates see it differently. Burdick said the people carrying guns in public are part of a small group of troublemakers who don’t reflect views of mainstream gun owners.

“Most gun owners understand that there is a time and place to have their gun with them, and it’s not walking down the street or getting on a bus or walking into a Starbucks,” she said. “It’s just a few who are trying to stir up … I don’t know what they’re trying to stir up, but it’s really idiotic.”

“Most gun owners understand that there is a time and place to have their gun with them.”

State Rep. Ginny Burdick

D-Portland

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

Suzanne, thanks for keeping us update.

Chambered, appreciate the link to 5.11. I'm going to have to get some. I read a lot of gun magazines and was completely unaware of their product.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun de Reply with quote

wtf Oregon has CCW and they can't understand why open carry (of a unloaded gun) isn't catching on ???

Wow!!! Your newspaper editor is ............. Shocked

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: News Flash: Starbucks asks not to be ceter of the gun debate Reply with quote

The newspaper is so extreme and one-sided most people only wrap their salmon in it. I buy it for the TV guide on Saturdays only, but those headliners sometimes get to me, and I have to read the slop to see what's going on. The "other" viewpoint so to speak. I'm a person that appreciates a good argument so I read the 'letters to the editor' today to see if there was any flack published. Only one person had a reply:


An overabundance of Barney Fifes

It’s not so much the perceived need of paranoid gun flaunters to holster up before heading to the hardware store or corner grocery or kid’s soccer match that worries me. Much. What worries me is that our culture appears to have generated an alarming overabundance of Barney Fifes, while Sheriff Andy and his policy of only letting Barney carry one bullet at a time — in his pocket — has been relegated to the fishing hole of obtuse interpretations of the Second Amendment.

Harry Pattison

Eugene


Could someone explain this to me? I'm not too swift with law-speak or whatever this guy is trying to say, is it this part? "obtuse interpretations of the Second Amendment", that gets me? Yeah prob. is. Eugene is full of "tree huggers" in a place where the logging environment WAS king, the logging industry enabled our school system to be second to none at one time, the tree huggers and spotted owl renegades have chopped the living daylights out of our school budgets now. It's those same tree huggers that are the paranoids, not the gun carriers. And the newspaper seems to see it as a movement. That's interesting. I think maybe the politics is the movement around here and they're trying to scare up some anti-gun advocates to frighten the citizenship into thinking there's a bunch of loonies on the loose. It may possibly work, what with the lazy political attitudes people have around here. Like one lady in an interview about getting some federal money to bail out home buyers said, it was Obama money. She was asked where Obama got the money and she didn't know. Sheeeesh...dumb enough to think it grows on trees I guess, and dumb enough to believe gun owners are the loonies on the loose.


Slap em in the face!
Suz

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