.405 Winchester on a Siamese

fnuser · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

I know about navy arms building 45-70's on these but it looks like a .405 would work even better, Any of you guys building stuff ever try it. I'm thinking seriously of starting another project while waiting for my stock for the .280 ai to come in.

fnuser · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

any body how about .444 or 45-70, 30-40 krag? 7.62x54r?

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

The .405 sounds pretty interesting. I've heard about the Siamese Mausers but haven't had a chance to handle one. A coworker's friend has one and they've shot through telephone poles with the .45-70.

wiersy111 · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

Ya gotta love the 45-70.

fnuser · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

does anyone have a factory loaded .405 with the hornady spire in it, I know what the book says for c.o.a.l. but i would like a real world measurement of that round. it looks like the max for this magazine box is 3.0"

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

You've got me looking at a .405 barrel for my Encore now...

fnuser · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

Sorry man, that stuff is virulent. I found another it's the .416 Barnes, a 45-70 necked down to .416. The thing i was liking about doing the .405 was all the .410" pistol bullets for whizbang as opposed to kaboom on the heavy's. I suppose the .444 Marlin would work as well just not as "cool" also the rim is a little smaller then what that action was designed for and the 45-70 is a little larger. but the 7.62x54r was just right as well as the .405. The krag and .303 are runners up. I even considered alot of wildcats based on these and arrived at making .444's out of 303's or krags to get the rim size i want but the base dia's are a smidge on the small size even for fireforming rimmed cartridges's I found a couple of pistol cartridges that would work neato mosquito, the .460 and .500 S&W 's maybe a 20" tube is what they need.

SwampFox · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

I have two Siamese guns in 45-70, that I built. I have not built a 444 or a 405, but I have read about the 444 conversion.

The 444 will work in the Siamese. You insert a clip body into the magazine with the bottom cut off and the feed lips work for the 444 without or with very little alteration. I want to say it is the SMLE clip for a 303, but can not get this 63 year old memory around it. I read the article years ago, like 30 years, and my mental Search Function just keeps skipping without a read. I know that the body diameter for the 444 is .011 larger than the 303, which would make it .0055 larger on a side which looks about right for a feed out of the same magazine with little or no alteration. The question is, is that the clip that fits into the Siamese mag well?

The 405 might suffer from a problem with length. Its case is about .300 inches longer than the case for the 303 or the 444 and is within .002 of the same diameter of the 303. If you could figure out a way to fit the 405 into the short magazine it might well work. But

Truth is though, the 45-70 in the Siamese can be loaded right to the bottom of 458 Win Mag levels so it will give you all the fun you want for a day at the range. Very Happy

Best,
Ed

fnuser · Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

Thanks ed I think I can see it from here, and I'll probably end up there just don't want to miss anything on the way. the .405 is too long by about .25" which is too bad cause everything else is spot on.

SwampFox · Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

Well,
Do not give up just yet. How about a short 405? Take a look at the 416 GNR. Garry is fooling with Encores so he does not have the strength of a 98 Mauser action to make the round really sing.

www.reedercustomguns.c...ridges.htm

This round is basicly a 45-70 necked down to 411 and blown out, with a very short neck. The short neck might pose a problem in a bolt gun. Gary uses 348 brass because he believes it to be stronger but in truth the modern 348 and 45-70 brass have the same strength. They are close to the same size, when the 348 is blown out.
Best,
Ed

fnuser · Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

Thanks, for your interest I hope I'm not boring anyone but just recently I stumbled across a really ugly cartridge called the 38-56 its like a 38-55 on the 30-30 or is it the other way any way its the 45-70 necked to .375" an ackley version of this would be bitchin. Maybe?

fnuser · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: .405 Winchester on a Siamese

o.k. here it goes after much study and this and that deminsion comparison I've decided to do two experimental rifles one will be the Siamese in a .405 Krag and the other will be a f.n. commercial in a .405-.240 wthby either necked up and used as is or chopped at the shoulder to a 2.00" length depending on how successfull the necking up goes. If I can get the case to neckup without collapsing or splitting I'll use it full length, if I start running into problems I'll probably make a short action .405; as I have two s.a. bottom metals.