Quote::

308 using the Federal black box 165s

Ed, Correct me if I'm wrong......That bullet was a Ballistic Silver Tip???

Unsure, which bullet it was.

The bullets in S. Africa were definately Hornady 165s as I saw the bullets on the reloading bench in the arms room, which was a big vault, and asked if that was what they used. I was using a 300 WSM with 180 Sierra Pro Hunters and their 30 cal bullets interested me.

Oh, yes, memory returns for a split second, CRS fade out, the Federals were nickel plated brass and black coated bullets. Might that be their TSX or similar such premium bullet load?
Best,
Ed

If memory serves me correctly the bullet should have also had a white polymer tip. I don’t think they were loading the TSX in that product line.

If it were a B-Tip...... the story comes at no surprise to me.
B-Tips expand very rapidly and will not give proper penetration with a shoulder shot. Anyone familiar with them knows to stay off the shoulder with them. They have received a bad rap because of this but I blame it on the shooter for not understanding what his ammo is designed to do.

I’ve used them for years with great success!!! When I’ve done my part on shot placement I’ve had only 2 deer that wasn’t a bang flop your switch has been turned off!!! Those two piled up within 25 yards of where they stood when shot.

Ah, that makes sense, because we had a descussion about the plastic tips which were red as I now recall. The rig was a rainbow of color looking thing, brass primers, nickel cases, black bullets with red plastic tips, etc.

Also as I recall John shot about 10 deer a year to feed his family including 4 kids and to fill the freezer. Most of his deer were shot behind the shoulder and hit the ground, but were shot at close range, less than 100 yards. Unfortunately John died two years ago from cancer.

I do know one thing, watching that shot through my scope really turned me off. I had never seen anything like it. When the shot broke, I heard the bullet hit and saw the deer flinch, but he never staggred, fel or did anything but reel around and go into 5th gear. It looked just like you have described, a bullet that entered, disentegrated and stopped before reaching the vitals. It did not blow up on the skin and made no large surface wound. I was looking dead at the deer at 16x.

Actually John told me he was aiming to hit the back edge of the shoulder and hit the shoulder center up.
Best,
Ed

I almost bought some of that ammo because of how cool it looked!!!

Sorry to hear of John’s loss to cancer.

glad to see additional posts and the description that the .308 bullet was a Ballistic Tip which puts SwampFox's experience in perspective. I'd like to add some more perspective and pulled it from the Hodgon Reloading manual and BigGame Ballistic Calculator to keep it objective. Hodgon shows loads to 200gr for the 308 and up to 220 for the 30-06. Taking max loads for each using 200 gr Swift A-frame bullets and Varget powder, the muzzle velocity of the 308 was 2441 and the 30-06 was 2501fps. At 400 yards the Energy for the 308 was 1355 ft/lbs and the 30-06 was 1432 equating to an optimal game weight of 320 lbs and 348 lbs, respectively. I don't see this as a significant performance difference and individual barrel characteristics of two different rifles could make them equal. I checked my 150gr .270 load with a muzzle velocity of 2900 fps and it has 1678 ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards and an optimal game weight of 382 lbs. I have all 3 calibers in my safe. I like shooting the .270 the best but that may also be slanted because I have come to like my Tikka T3 better than my Remington 700.

Based on the data, if you want heavy weight .30 caliper bullet performance, wouldn't it better to consider one of the magnum cases?

I would suggest that the specific bullet you choose, e.g., Sierra Game King, Nosler Partition or Ballistic Tip, Barnes TTSX, etc, may have more contribution to hunting success than the cartridge that delivers it.

The 06 was downgraded to make the specs safe in any gun ever made in 06, including the brittle 03 actions. The 308 was made 30+ years later and the guns it was made in, do not include the same problem rifles chambered for the 06. This is why you see a disparity in pressures.

In every discussion comparing the 308 to 30-06, the 308 shooters bring the SAMMI specs up without any explination. Many folks buy into the SAMMI stats as an apples to apples comparison, which it is not and never has been.

The correct comparison is performance potential in a modern rifle, for example the 700 Remington with modern powders. Then, guess what? The 308 is just a shadow of the 06. Doubt it? Go look at the load data on this site.
Best,
Ed

If I understand the thread introduction correctly, you've been happy with your .270, the way it handles, and the way it shoots, but you would like to go with the larger bullets available in the 30 caliber for some of your hunting.

My first response would be to go with a 30-06 or larger case with the same 3.34" overall length (e. g. .300 win mag) in a rifle and optics as close to the same as your .270 as you can make it.

The .300 Win Mag is a particularly good choice because the drop and wind drift out to 500 yards are very close to those of the .270 when using appropriately chosen factory loads.

This would mean that all the lessons and habits that have served you well for the .270 will carry over to the .300 Win Mag and vice versa. Examples are holdover, wind correction, bolt stroke, etc.

SwampFox wrote:

disparity in pressures.

I did make it apples to apples. Not only was the bullet and powder the same, the pressure for the .308 load above was 50,100 CUP vs 49,600 CUP for the .30-06, within 1% of each other. All the Hodgen data for both cartridges ran at this pressure level, 50, 000 CUP +- little.

What did I miss?

Where is the load data located on this site?

Look under "Modules" in the left column, first block, "Reloading Database"

I have heard reports of running the 308Win and 30-06 up to 60,000PSI where the new magnum ammunition is spec'ed to.

I don't suggest trying it at home.

Dimitri

Just as a reminder!!! This thread is about the choice of a 308 or the 270!!!

Lets not turn it into another 308 v 30-06 argument!!!

This will probably open a can of worms, but I don't care for the 30-06 and have never even wanted or considered having one. There are other calibers that work just as well or better than the '06.

I was asking to find out how good the .308 is to see if it can fill in where my .270 leaves off. I wanted to know if it would be that much better or maybe I will move up to a magnum for the same performance as my .270, but with a heavier bullet.

lilbudsjst wrote:

I was asking to find out how good the .308 is to see if it can fill in where my .270 leaves off.

I've got both and don't see the .308 as a step up from a .270 in any aspect. I'm going to take my .308 to the gun show this weekend to sell it. I don't need two rifles that are so close in capability and, IMO, the .270 does it better at the longer ranges. To pick up where the .270 leaves off, I think you will need heavy .30-cal bullets with good BC in higher capacity cases than the 30-06 or a .338 cartridge.

Hey Slim Jim, I agree with you on the .270 but the step-up from that, IMHO, would be the 7mm Rem. mag. with a 162gr load. The 7mag has taken evey big game animal in North America and has also taken cape buffalo in Africa. It's such a flat shooting, hard hitting round that I don't see any reason to have anything else. I know, I might have just opened up another can of worms on this but from what I see, ballistically the 7 mag edges out the '06. Yes, the '06 has been around forever and the 7 mag hasn't and we've had the '06 preached to us to no end. Numbers don't lie and I've seen people shoot deer with an '06 with 2 and 3 good shots and the deer ran off. In one case the deer was not found for a week. All except for my bad experience with Barnes X bullets I've never had a deer take another step with my 7 mg.