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308vis30/06
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

I agree this thread/subject has been beat to death so many times already that it's actually getting boring like Elyboy says. Like Bushy says,"there are no winners". Truth be known you could start many numerous this cal versus that cal threads and have all kinds of discussions /arguments without winners. But one thing I have noticed is that it is usually a fellow with a .308 that starts the .308 versus .30-06 threads Shocked ........... Why is that.????????????? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Maybe it's a "mine is bigger than yours" complex. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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tikkat3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Sorry to offend the sensitive but
Humour is as Humour does
But yes indeedee an improvement
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Hey Eric....I reckon BLUE is a much better colour than RED mate...what say you.

Oh yeah....and a Chevy is much better than a Ford....and a Dodge is better than both.

Also camo gear doesn't do anything for the colour of a man's eyes that wears it, cause a deer can still see him.

Haha Haha Haha

Cheers, Vince

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

The only argument like that Vince, that has never been disputed that I can remember, is when Minnesota elected Jessie Ventura as our Governor.
A T-Shirt came out that many of us Minnesota folks wore that said " Our Governor can Beat Up Your Governor"

Jessie was a former Navy Seal, so nobody argued with us about that statement. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Eric Laughing Laughing

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

What's the Garand chambered for again?

I miss my ol' Remy woods-carbine.

.308's are for snipers.

'aught-6 is for huntin'.

Carry on.
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Censored

Neither of them are good..
now send all of them you own to me, I'll dispose them for you!! Misc
Give up your sport, guns are no good!! they are evil!!









Ignore

Ok.. ok.. I'll go n sit in the corner... Sad

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
Hey Eric....I reckon BLUE is a much better colour than RED mate...what say you.

Oh yeah....and a Chevy is much better than a Ford....and a Dodge is better than both.

Also camo gear doesn't do anything for the colour of a man's eyes that wears it, cause a deer can still see him.

Haha Haha Haha

Cheers, Vince


And I can kill the same stuff with my .308 as Eric needs a .30-06 to kill....

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
Oh yeah....and a Chevy is much better than a Ford....and a Dodge is better than both. Cheers, Vince

Vince, I was a Service Manager & Body Shop Manager at a local Gm Dealership for 18 years and then when they sold out to the local Chevy Dealership I went to the Chrysler Dealership because the idiot that owned it wouldn't leave me alone. He kept after me to come work for him. So I did for almost 4 years, that's all I could handle of him and his wanna be products. Vince you just don't know unless you've been there and seen it all!!!!!!!!

That is certainly another can of worms. I've been on all three sides(Ford, GM, Chrysler) of that argument over the years and I certainly have my preferences.



Oh and my 30-06 still performs like it did when I bought it new in the very early 70's ....................... actually about 36 years ago Smile Smile Smile

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

SingleShotLover wrote:
I'm pretty sure the 7.62X39mm would take that prize.

That would do no one any good all things considered here. Surplus ammunition in that caliber is considered "fun ammo" so the amount on hand depends on how much everyone shoots and how long they wait to buy more. China and Russia supplying countries in Africa do you little good in Canada and the USA. Nor does it do you any good if you have to go to South America to find more ammunition. Very Happy

lesterg3 wrote:
I believe that the sporting .308 will accept the 7.62 NATO cartridge, but that a 7.62 rifle should not be used to fire a .308 cartridge

Biggest problem with a military 7.62x51mm NATO rifle firing 308Win ammunition is that the chambers may be sufficiently large that they are sized as "Field Reject" for the 308Win but are "acceptable" for the thicker brass cases of the military ammunition. Generally however most "7.62x51mm NATO" marked firearms are not that bad in terms of headspacing.

As well the NATO rounds are loaded hotter and will create a pressure spike in 308Win chambers. Still most (if not all) modern firearms will not notice the difference. Just as they don't notice the difference between 5.56mm NATO and 223Rem. However I must point out, there may be issues with "tight" match chambers in the commercial rounds when using military rounds due to the higher pressures created with the military loadings.

ElyBoy wrote:
Anybody who argues the .308 over the 30-06 is either arguing just for the argument, or doesn't read the data books very well

I disagree, the 308Win/7.62mm NATO's performance is just fine for any game animal (including "man" in war) as compared to the 30-06. From 150 to 168gr ammunition there is little difference when one considers a hit is still a hit and will punch a hole through the animal. Your talking about a 10% difference in energy or so. Not enough to really matter from a practical stand point. Wink

lesterg3 wrote:
Which caliber will be easier to find. I assume at this point since I can fire both the standard .308, and the NATO 7.62x51mm with the .308 that I will be twice as likely to find ammunition.

Again I disagree finding 308Win will be a hell of alot easier when you consider the US military like most militarizes today still use the 7.62mm NATO round as their "medium machine gun" round. Unless you happen to find a stash from the CMP or hunting ammunition, the amount of "illegal" ammunition leaving military bases for sale and trade in 7.62mm NATO will be a lot higher then finding any commercial 30-06 ammunition once the factories and supply systems fail and stop operations.

But if you really want to plan for this I suggest a 5.56mm NATO, they will put down deer sized game if required (and if you do your part) and there is probably much larger stock piles of the stuff then there is any other round right now in North America.

English Mike wrote:
Maximum chamber pressures for commercial .308 & 7.62x51 NATO are a lot closer than rumour has it.
This is due to the former being measured in PSI & until recently, the latter in CUP.
The two are not comparable & their relationship is not linear.

Yes both in properly cut chambers will give out just about the same amount of pressure, compared to the misleading lower number on the CUP system for the 7.62mm NATO.

30-06Spring = Bear gun loaded with 180-200gr pills.
308Win/7.62mm NATO = Everything else gun.

Dimitri

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

OK, I'll take the hook for the 10,000 time on this decades old argument.

Yes, with lighter bullets, the .308 is close to the 30-06.
BUT when going up to 180gr bullets and heaver the 30-06 pulls far ahead of the '08.

I have reloaded for both, and with the .308, I could get fairly close to the .06 using 180gr bullets. Fairly close. That was about it, without getting into trouble.
Anything heavier? "Forget about it"

THAT is why this argument had no legs.

The answer is, and always has been, if you want more punch, get a bigger gun, and quit arguing that your smaller calibre is better than the larger one.

This point makes no more sense now, than it did when I was a kid listening to the guys jaw about this same subject in Dad's store.

Eric

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

But would a 30-06Spring not kill a deer just as dead as a 308Win when both are loaded with 150gr ammunition?

Dimitri

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

.30-30 (.30 WCF) Best rifle hands down. So there!!!

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Its kinda hard to argue a whole lot about the differences between two cartridges when one was designed to duplicate the other... (I do agree that the .30-06 handles the heaviest bullets better, after all it is a slightly modified .30-03 which was originally designed with a 220 gr bullet.)

Bushy, I tried to throw the .280 Rem into the mix and they ignored it. Maybe we can start an argu..., errr, discussion on which is better, the .223 Rem or the 5.56x45?

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Shot placement D.

Used to be an old lady in Ely, who shot many bear with a well placed shot with a .22

David slayed Goliath with a rock.


Even for deer hunting, my Dad had me start off with my Model 71, using 200gr Remington Core Locts.

I started Ben with my Model 70 .338WinMag.

The smallest gun that I ever used for deer was my .35 Winchester.

Other than that, I have always used my .348, .338, .358, or my favorite, the 45/70.

I'm a fairly good shot, and believe me, there are many deer that ended up in my freezer that, with my shot placement, would have died of old age instead, if I were shooting a 150gr bullet.
I have never had to follow a blood trail using heavy bullets. Never.

Like I've said, all of the arguments here, I have heard countless times, and it always ends up talking about light bullet loads, which has NOTHING to do with ballistics.

The .308 is a great cartridge. Always has been.
BUT it seems to me, that the guys that always bring up this same argument, are the same guys who can't stand recoil.
If they could, they wouldn't talk like this, and would start shooting real MAN guns like the .300WinMag or above. Very Happy

Eric

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
I tried to throw the .280 Rem into the mix and they ignored it.

Well considering Remington decided to sell a cartridge a couple of decades after the 270Win came out, both being nearly identical, and the fact I have seen 280Rem rounds being sold twice I believe (Bass Pro in Toronto and I am sure there was a box or 2 at Cabelas in Boise) I wouldn't ever consider it a "practical" round. Laughing

ElyBoy wrote:
If they could, they wouldn't talk like this, and would start shooting real MAN guns like the .300WinMag or above. Very Happy

Eric, you'd fit in well with the rest of my hunting buddies. Cause according to them nothing but a 300Win Mag or above can put down a moose. Shame most of the moose in Ontario were probably put down with 30-30's and 303British rifles in the first half of the 20th century instead of the super duper calibers that people started to use later on. Very Happy

Dimitri

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