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OntheLasGallinas Super Member
Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 1042 Location: South Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Vince,
The reason for that question has to do with foot-pounds of energy and trajectory caused by weight difference.
Then, the penetration difference has to do with the foot print of the impact (the larger the diameter, the greater the resistance).......correct?
Cary
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Gidday Cary.
The energy and trajectory would be pretty much identical for each slug/projectile. The "group" was around 6" - 7" at 50m, but bear in mind I was firing single shot and had to load each one in my O/U before firing.
Each slug starts out identical as far as shape and size is concerned...they all came from the same LEE mould. The footprint alters on impact. Like any other projectile, the softer it is, the easier and, usually, the quicker and more dramatic is the upset or alteration in shape, or as we call it, expansion.
In the case of the Linotype alloy, it is hard enough to retain its shape and frontal dimension without distorting or upsetting, hence the deeper penetration.
The Bullet Alloy is marginally softer and whilst the actual front of the slug did not expand or upset, the back section, the skirt, actually did, although only marginally. The rear of the slug is distorted as though it were spinning when it impacted. I am surmising that this small amount of upset was sufficient to absorb enough energy to reduce the actual penetration into the hardwood tree.
The Lead, being very soft, started to expand and flatten out on impact. The actual nose diameter started out at 8mm...after impact it expanded to 10mm. But it is the remainder of the slug/projectile that has expanded dramatically due to everything behind the nose continuing to move forward whilst the nose had stopped. The diameter of the skirt at the rear of the slug is 16mm. On impact this has actually reduced to 15mm and started to fold inwards into itself...implode if you like. The length of the slug prior to impact is 15mm...after impact, 8mm...this is the most dramatic change.
The lead slug barely penetrated into the hard wood...it only pushed through the outer dry layer and inner wet soft layer of the bark.
So, there we go...I hope my ramblings make sense mate, as I am not an academic or Scientist.
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Vince, looks like a good explanation to me. Seems I read someplace ("Understanding Firearm Ballistics" by Rinker?) that most of the energy a bullet has is expended in deforming the bullet, niot the target. I'll look that up as soon as I have a chance.
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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OntheLasGallinas Super Member
Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 1042 Location: South Texas
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Vince,
You did great. I couldn't have explained it any better.
Cary
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Yes, it is in Rinker's book. Pages 341-342.
"The energy is used in creating heat, deforming both the bullet and the object hit, creating noise, breaking bone, penetration, deforming, etc. Only a small amount is used in knocking or moving the object struck."
"A lot of energy is used in bullet expansion. If the bullet had little energy to start with, the energy used for expansion won't leave enough for suitable penetration."
Edited to correct spelling...
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Last edited by Pumpkinslinger on Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Pumpkin, What does Rinker have to say about energy transfer, the central nerves system, and hydrostatic shock ? The stuff that drops a animal in its tracks.
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Chambered, he has three chapters on terminal ballistics: "General", "Game & hunting" and "Self Defense".
In the chapter concerning hunting he says "The bullet's weight, velocity and expansion properties should be in proportion to the range, size and strength of the game."
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Thanks Mike !!!
Hmm !!! 3 chapters !!! Sounds like the type of info/read I've been looking for.
I'll look into getting a copy.
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Humm I started getting hungry looking at the goat, will have to fix up myself a snack before bed!
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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OntheLasGallinas Super Member
Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 1042 Location: South Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Ahh, the subtle aroma and delicate taste of BBQ cabrito!
Cary
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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6397 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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We are cooking them Indonesian style - stew in coconut milk with spices, carrots and potato.
YUUUMM!!!!
Of course I like to read the energy delivery discussion too..
It is somewhat relevant to the topic..
_________________ A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
Do - Not try!
gelandangan.weebly.com/ |
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) |
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Pumpkinslinger, is this the I'm looking for ?
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_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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