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Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . .
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

Once in awhile I get in the mood to simply blather away at a given subject. Therefore, I disclaim that any of the following is accurate or objective. To the contrary it is very subjective and you may wish to skip this post and move on to something more concise and more of interest.

I've owned a multitude of handguns over the years and, candidly, most of them have been superb whether Colt, Freedom Arms, Kimber, Ruger, S&W, Dan Wesson, Glock, Beretta, SIG, et al. In fact, the safe contains one or more samples of each of these and others, a result of being involved in handguns since pre Internet times, pre cable times, pre . . . . you get the idea. None of these handguns are part of any collection, rather simply an accumulation based on fancy.

The most useful of all the revolvers has been the single action Rugers of which I have several Vaqueros, Blackhawk and Super Blackhawks chambered in an assortment of 41 mag, 44-40, 44 mag and 45 Colt. The Vaqueros are about the most rugged indestrucable handgun I own. They are not tempermental in any sense of the word, a usually accurate from the factory and carry all the whallop needed to get any job done on the N American continent for which a handgun would be used. MO, of course.

The Rugers are easy to maintain and, once done a few times, a breeze to take down to the component parts. Trigger jobs are a cinch -- I'm not referring to the changing of weaker springs either. They lend themselves well to any degree of customizing an owner wishes to perform. For example, many of my Vaqueros and Blackhawks have the SBH or the Bisley hammer, something I prefer for ease of operation.

There is a plethora of grips and holsters, too. Often these can be found used for a utilitarian application or one can pay several hundreds of dollars for custom items, but, the point is that it is all available via the Net and, often, local gunshops or classifieds.

A visit to John Linebaugh's website will confirm the strength of the Ruger and extoll the virtures of the 45 Colt for handloaders over most other cartridges, especially the 44 Magnum. My personal testing confirms not only this, but, that a hot loaded 45 Colt in a Ruger Vaquero or BH will handily outperform the 44 Magnum, a cartridge I also enjoy shooting. 280gr cast bullets @1,572 fps from a 7 1/2" barrel absolutely rocks. But, the other Ruger chamberings are at home in many applications. The 44-40 may be among the most "fun" handguns especially when blackpowder is added to the menu.

At the time of its introduction (1873, along with the 45-70 and 45 Colt) the 44-40 offered significant advances in velocity and versatility. While the thin cases can present the reloader with a situation that needs careful handling, the shooting characteristic of revolvers so chambered is distinctive.

On the other end of the scale, using FFFg in a 44 Mag Vaquero can be a blast with some amazing results in accuracy, although the 45 Colt gets most of the attention when BP is the subject. SPG lube is a blessing and great cast bullets are available with SPG from Beartooth Bullets, on line, in Dover, Idaho. Marshall Stanton of BTB should be the cast bullet guru given his experiences and capability. Now, there is a good site to visit. Good forums, too.

Bull elk, black bear, mule deer, moutail lion, coues deer, antelope, coyote, bobcat and marmots have all fallen to my Ruger handguns. When I'm headed backcountry to drive, hike, hunt or walk, a Ruger will be close at hand. When guiding elk hunters (8 years) I noted most guides had a Ruger with them, guns that get abused by weather and conditions on a regular basis.

So, when I see a Ruger SAA I have a feeling bordering on reverence for the integrity of the design, the honesty of its presentation and the fact that it may be not only the most utilitarian of handguns, but, the most elegant as well.

YMMV


Last edited by Handloader on Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

I understand your feelings and agree - You have stated what I feel as a Ruger owner.

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robfromaz1977
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post Reply with quote

Handloader wrote:
"A visit to John Linebaugh's website will confirm the strength of the Ruger and extoll the virtures of the 45 Colt for handloaders over most other cartridges, especially the 44 Magnum. My personal testing confirms not only this, but, that a hot loaded 45 Colt in a Ruger Vaquero or BH will handily outperform the 44 Magnum, a cartridge I also enjoy shooting."


I just read that same write up the other day and was amazed. After reading it a couple of times, (I printed it out) I was a little confused as to the strength of the Rugers. He states that a 44 mag Super Black Hawk was destroyed at 80,000 cup and a Smith model 29 had compairable results. Then he states that today we have stronger guns chambered in 44 mag (Redhawk prime example). Am I to believe that the Redhawks are stronger than the Blackhawks? I am only curious because I want to shoot a higher pressure load from my Redhawk and want to do it safely. I don't want to try and approach the level of pressure he does but want a little more than factory loads produce. Any help on this would be great. Thanks.
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roklok
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

The Redhawks are a stronger, beefier design than the Super Blackhawks. I own both, and like them both, but the redhawk is definitely heavier duty in factory form.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

At some point it becomes academic as to whether one handgun is stronger than another when considering the Blackhawk vs Redhawk. The case itself will rupture before either reach a disassembly pressure and the load to do that would be far off the chart.

The main advantage of the Redhawk is in driving very large nails in very tough hardwood, due to its weight. OTOH, the Blackhawk has a balance and pointability that would preclude its useage as a mere hammer.
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robfromaz1977
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

So I should be able to use load data from most load manuals that are labeled safe only in Ruger and T/C firearms. Some load manuals say Blackhawk only and others say Ruger in general.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post Reply with quote

robfromaz1977 wrote:
So I should be able to use load data from most load manuals that are labeled safe only in Ruger and T/C firearms. Some load manuals say Blackhawk only and others say Ruger in general.

Yes, sir. IMO. That's based on Redhawks I own in 45 Colt and 41 Mag and, of course, on just how crazy you wish to get. But, any listed load will work fine in Reds or Blacks.

I do disagree with my hero Linebaugh's assertion that the S&W N frames are as strong as the Blackhawk. I have seen S&Ws with blown top straps and cylinders in the Endurance Enhanced versions, admittedly with handloads however those same handloads, while stout, did nothing to a Freedom Arms or a Vaquero. Examples of one are always questionable, but, that's how we often form our opinions and why, by the way, I far, far prefer brunettes.
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robfromaz1977
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

This is great help. I am not one to see if I can get the last grain of powder stuffed in that is listed at the top of the load charts, just wanted a little more than the low pressure factory stuff. And knowing now that my Redhawk is plenty stout, I will feel safe with any load I choose to put in it. Thanks again for your experience.
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roklok
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

The Redhawk will handle any sane .44 load, including the 330 grain Hammerheads. This excerpt is from Garretts website:


GARRETT'S 44 MAG HAMMERHEAD AMMO
$85 / 50 CTGS

330-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GC LONG-HAMMERHEAD AT 1400-FPS

THIS 44 MAGNUM AMMO IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN RUGER AND DAN WESSON DOUBLE-ACTION REVOLVERS, AS WELL AS THE TAURUS RAGING BULL. IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED FOR THE GARY REEDER 5-SHOT ULTIMATE 44 MAGNUM, AND THE JOHN GALLAGHER CUSTOM LONG-CYLINDER RUGER SINGLE-ACTIONS. THIS AMMO SHOULD BE FIRED ONLY IN THOSE RECOMMENDED REVOLVERS! THIS AMMO IS BOTH TOO LONG AND GENERATES TOO MUCH CHAMBER PRESSURE FOR SAFE USE IN S&W AND RUGER SUPER BLACKHAWK REVOLVERS. IT IS ALSO TOO LONG FOR USE IN THE FREEDOM ARMS REVOLVER.

ENERGY: 1440 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 28; MEPLAT: .320"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 43,500-CUP; SECTIONAL DENSITY: .255; TRAJECTORY: +2" @ 50-YDS; ZERO @ 100-YDS; -7" @ 150-YDS


I had to send my Super Blackhawk back to Ruger because of a cracked forcing cone, looking at my Redhawk, I cant imagine that forcing cone cracking, it is twice as beefy as the Super Blackhawk. I am not bashing the Blackhawks, I love my custom 5" .44 Bisley.
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Joe Boleo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post Reply with quote

Interesting posts. I have Rugers and like them and for the money represent real value. Take care...
Joe
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post Reply with quote

roklok wrote:
The Redhawks are a stronger, beefier design than the Super Blackhawks. I own both, and like them both, but the redhawk is definitely heavier duty in factory form.

How's the weather in Fairbanks!? Referencing both of your posts on this thread, you believe the Redhawk is stronger than the Blackhawk. Is that based on the Hammerhead recommendation?

Stay warm.
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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post Reply with quote

To my dismay, I have only one Ruger. A Police Security Six manufactured around 1972 and chambered in .357 Mag, with a 4 1/2 inch barrel. I inherited from my Dad, who bought it new and never fired it.

Since then I have put about 50 rounds through it and I love it. It is superb in handling and the kick is negligible. I would like to upgrade the sights though. So if anyone has a suggestion it would be appreciated.

Hopefully one day I will be able to buy more Ruger revolvers, and will post my intent so I can hear from ya'll on which model and caliber I should acquire.

Thanks for extolling the virtues of the Ruger handguns.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post Reply with quote

lesterg3 wrote:
To my dismay, I have only one Ruger. A Police Security Six manufactured around 1972 and chambered in .357 Mag, with a 4 1/2 inch barrel. I inherited from my Dad, who bought it new and never fired it.

Since then I have put about 50 rounds through it and I love it. It is superb in handling and the kick is negligible. I would like to upgrade the sights though. So if anyone has a suggestion it would be appreciated.

Hopefully one day I will be able to buy more Ruger revolvers, and will post my intent so I can hear from ya'll on which model and caliber I should acquire.

Thanks for extolling the virtues of the Ruger handguns.

Lester,
I made my own sights for my Security-Six. The rear blade can be made from heavy banding strapping material and the front blade from some flat bar steel. I tuned my sights so the front blade would fill the rear notch when at arm's length for a beter sight picture.

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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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roklok
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

Handloader, my opinion is based on the Garrett 330 grain +P ammo info, in which he purposely made the OAL slightly too long to use in Super Blackhawk cylinders because he feels the Blackhawk is not up to those pressures. My opinion is also based on personal experience with the aforementioned cracked forcing cone on my Super Blackhawk. The barrel at the forcing cone area on the Redhawk is MUCH thicker, no comparison. The Redhawk also has a lot more beef in the cylinder walls. Of course, as you stated, the down side is weight. While I carry my Blackhawk on my belt, I find the Redhawk is too heavy for belt carry and carry it in a chest holster. I like them both immensely and would not want to give up either one. I carry my Redhawk loaded with the 330 grain Hammerheads with two speedloaders in this holster:

www.alaskasportsmanproducts.com/

The weather up here has been pretty moderate so far, although it did dip down to -40 about a month ago. Right now it is about -18. It will get colder through January and February.
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roklok
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Blathering about Rugers, I recommend skipping this post . . Reply with quote

Here is an interesting article comparing the Blackhawk and Redhawk:

www.beartoothbullets.c...otes.htm/5
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