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Reloading Federal Brass...
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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metz3601
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:12 am    Post subject: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Once again, I must humble myself and ask for advice from those much more experienced than myself. I just got done with a batch of reloads for my .30-30 and i noticed something strange.... throughout the entire process some of these reloads had their necks compressed during the bullet seating.... try as I might, I couldnt figure it out.... out of the 54 rounds I reloaded, 23 of them had their necks compressed. When I reload. Bout the only thing I can figure is some of my brass was just bad... It was all federal brass from their 150 grain power shock factory loads... never exposed to any kind of extreme conditions or anything I can think of that could weaken the brass..... Has anyone else ever ran into problems like this with federal brass, or did I just happen to run into the lemon bunch of brass??
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RePete
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

The proplem is generally one of two things.

1. The dies are set too low and you are using too much crimp. Or

2. The brass is too long. Measure the length of the fired case it shouldn't be longer than 2.0395", if it is trim it back to 2.029".

If you don't have a trimmer just pick up the Lee trimmer. The one like this.

www.leeprecision.com/c...secon.html

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Morax
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

also but not as common it could be (ok i donno technical tems here) a lube lock, if you have too much or bad lube in the neck it creates a hydro-lock where the bullet wont go into the neck and the only place for the force to go is into the neck/shoulder.. i have had a couple of these
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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

The 30/30 case is not built as strongly as some other cases so is more easily damaged. Besides those possible causes listed above, if the case mouths haven't been chamfered and you're seating bullets with a flat base, cases can be crushed.

Cartridges in the 30/30 Winchester class do not need to be crimped. Take a sized case of the proper length and run it into your bullet seating die; there should be NO resistance. If there is resistance it means the case is contacting the part of the die that puts the crimp on the case and you'll need to back the die out a bit.

A couple of other things that go along with the 30/30 cartridge case being weaker than some others is that with firing and resizing, the brass will stretch. This means you'll have to trim more frequently than you would with some other cases and also means that brass fatigue will cause case failure earlier than in some other brass. After the second or third loading, you need to run a wire with the tip bent to 90 degrees (I use a paper clip) down the inside of the case. If there is an indentation or groove in the brass near the case head it means incipient case head separation and that piece of brass needs to be discarded.
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metz3601
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice.... I dont think it would be a problem with my die, either since the slight majority of the reloads did not buckle... hydro lock seems just about as unlikely since all of the bullets were fully seated, and by the way it was described, it sounds like they shouldnt have been if that were the case... forgot to mention before, the brass I was using had only been fired once.... All of the reloading manuals I have been able to get my hands on also say that .30-30 should be crimped, especially those rounds being used in tubular magizines.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Metz, was the brass all trimmed to the same length?

I had a similar problem with some .223 loads last year. I had the die misadjusted just a hair and bulged the shoulder on some rounds. It was so little that I didn't notice it for a while and was investigating everything else I could think of to discover why those rounds wouldn't chamber right in my AR but would chamber in some other .223s.

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popgun
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Hi Metz and welcome aboard.

Your right, it is a good idea and recommended in most every manual to crimp this round. You can get the best crimp without bulging the case neck with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. A big improvement over the roll crimp in most standard die sets. This die also gives you a little step up on Standard Deviation because of the more uniform crimp and your starting pressure will be more uniform also. The good thing is the Lee Factory Crimp die will not break the bank. You can find them the cheapest at Midsouth Shooters Supply for $9.86 + Shipping. Here is the link.

Lee Factory Crimp Die @ Midsouth Shooters Supply

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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Hi Metz...you know mate, it is rather funny in that I too have suffered this problem with the 30.30, Winchester cases...but never with any other calibre.

I figured that the problem was with my sizing die so I smoked a couple of cases...damn hard keeping then smouldering though Laughing ...smoked the necks then adjusted the die bit by bit and run a case through it. I found that if I "stopped" the sizing process at about 3/4 of the way down the neck then the problem disappeared.

Crimping is a must with this cartridge, especially if using them in a tubular magazine. I use a roll crimp cause that is part of the bullet seating die, but I intend, one day when I have the bucks, to buy a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I have one for my .243 and the FCD is awesome.

Cheers, Vince

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Just a thought...did you chamfer the case mouths before loading? I have seen case necks crumple from being slightly thick (though still within reason) and without a chamfer to ease flat bases into the case, the necks couldn't stand the strain.

Federal brass is generally very good brass though I did run across a guy several years ago who had a batch of their factory "premium" loads that refused to allow the bolt on his 7mm Magnum to close. I have not heard of any problems since that time.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

As Popgun said. Crimp in a seperate stage with a Lee Factory Crimp die (FCD). It doesn't make any difference what length you trim them to as long as they are within the required specification and ALL are the same length +/- .002". All .30-30 cases are delicate and will crush at the shoulder if you are not careful. If you can chamber the ones that are a little crushed without too much force you can fire them and they will straighten out. But if you can't chamber them, you will have to disassemble them, save the bullet and powder and scrap the case.

Procedure: Clean and inspect. Lube lightly. Resize/decap. Measure, trim and chamfer. Clean and inspect again. Make sure that the chamfer is adequate (don't over chamfer). Prime. Drop powder charge in case. Seat bullet to half or a bit more of the cannelure. Crimp using the Lee FCD in a seperate procedure (I use the FCD in a single stage). Problem solved...

What's happening with the bullet seating/crimp die is that the die starts the crimp and at the same time continues to push down on the bullet. Because the bullet is crimped or partually crimped the case buckles rather then the bullet going deeper into the case during the roll crimp...

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metz3601
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Thanks for the input guys... Turns out I had my seating/crimping die set a hair too low... Luckily I was able to save nearly all the brass, by dissassembling them and running them back through the decapper/resizer... Pain in the brass, and took all night, but it worked out well... guess a .30-30 wasnt the best to learn how to use the roll crimper in my rcbs dies.... oh well, live and learn
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Metz, you realize that we all suggested these potential fixes because we've all been there... Wink

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

I can't think of a better one to learn on. You figure out a lot of the problems you might have with other cases right off the bat...You definately learn the"light touch"....

If you own a .30-30 and you reload for it...You have crushed some cases.

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

I did the same type of thing i was putting a dip on one side of the case and it made it real hard to pull back out, might not be related but I finally figured out my decapper/sizing button was a little loose and was off center i did like single shot said and inside chamfered all my brass tightened my decapper rod and the problem went away my cases are usually made out of something else so the necks are a liitle thick until the case is made then i go back and outside trim them to spec. Thanks single shot hope this helps somebody else too.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Reloading Federal Brass... Reply with quote

Like Bushy and Popgun, I would still suggest getting a Lee Factory Crimp Die to crimp those cases instead of using the RCBS Seating Die. The Lee FCD is cheap and works excellent and I would never crimp without it.

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