Handloader wrote:

They aren't required in some hunt areas where vegetation is thick

Try looking INTO the Thick sometime with a set of good binos.....compare what you see to that which you see with the nakid eye.

The human eye has difficulty looking deep into vegitation and usually just focuses on what's the closest. This is at it's worst when the "bush" is deeply shadowed and the sun is at your back. Vegetation in the forground is brightly lit but it is dark the deeper you try to see. It's very easy to miss what is just in front of you......

A good pair of binos allows the still hunter to search the 10 to 100 yard deep area just in front and to the sides thoroughly before taking a step that might blow his stalk.

I routinely find game this way and consider a pair of binos just as important at 20 yards as I do at half a mile.......

One of the inherant differences between Good Glass and Mediocre Glass is that which is apparent at close range as well as long range. Use a set of cheap binos as I have just described above and you will soon see that the extra money for the better glass is money well spent.

Good Glass is not solely defined by what it makes appear closer at half a mile, it also has the ability to process light at close range enabling the human eye to do things it was not meant to do...........

wildswalker wrote:

Good Glass is not solely defined by what it makes appear closer at half a mile, it also has the ability to process light at close range enabling the human eye to do things it was not meant to do...........

I..seee......

I have several pr. of bino's., some zoom, and the ones I go to almost every time for hunting that are the clearest, easiest to use, trouble free, dependable and most reliable are my Tasco 7x35 with individual focus that I got in July 1964 for my 14th. birthday from my Dad. Think they were $11.44 + tax so around 12 bucks. Still use them all the time. Like the fact that once focused they are in focus at all ranges.

tracker wrote:

wildswalker wrote: Good Glass is not solely defined by what it makes appear closer at half a mile, it also has the ability to process light at close range enabling the human eye to do things it was not meant to do........... I..seee......

Do you?

Or do I need to step down the level of communication (use littler words) so's you can grasp the concept?

What degree of "smart azz" are you trying to level there?

Mebbe your "rolling on the floor laughing" emoticon really doesn't mean anything afterall, or do it?

PENTAX PCF 7X BY 35MM
PORRO PRISMS

Six years ago I arrived in Gillete, Wyoming without my gun case and binoculars (the airlines momentarily lost it).
I was able to borrow a gun from the outfitter but the binoculars offered didn’t appeal to me, so I looked for a good one in the store where I purchased my out-of-state license.

I really can’t understand how any serious hunter can spend one grand in a rifle and scope and then turn around and pick up a $39.99 binoculars from the “on sale” rack.
To me the binocular is the “hunt”; I spend most of the time in a hunt glassing for game, looking for that tell-tale piece of fur between the vegetation, that antler sticking out of the bushes or that liquid shine of an eye in the bushes.

For me, glasses that are sharp, bright and have good definition are imperative to the success of the hunt, after all if I see something that appears to be an antler or horn sticking out of the brush, I want enough definition in my optics to tell me that it is really an antler and not a just a weathered branch.

PENTAX PCF 7X 35 mm



Good optics cost money, sometimes a good deal of it. A bargain is not found in the price, but in the quality of the optics that you can get for a predetermined amount of money that you are willing to spend.
For that reason when you are in that store comparing binoculars to each other it is necessary that you know what you are looking for regarding the quality of the glass inside the binoculars.
A good company name will have glasses of different prices; today it seems that even the cheap brands will advertise that they have Barium Crown glass (BAK4) and coated optics.
What you have to look for in the box that comes with the binoculars are those advertisings that say they use fully multicoated lenses. This coating is a bombardment of the glass with anti reflection particles of magnesium fluoride or other similar compound, the deposit will change the color of the glass to a blue hue or ruby or green, and what is does is sharpen the image and eliminate reflections that robs the light entering into them.
Cheap brands will coat once and only the outside of the lenses, what you looking for is fully multicoated lenses (as much as seven coats are applied) in all of the inside and outside surfaces, good brands will advertise the fact in the box or literature that come with the glasses.




Looking through a good glass, you will see that an image is sharp and well-defined, while the image from a cheap binocular will be soft and fuzzy.
Brightness in a binocular when you are in a store has to be checked by looking into dark corners of the store and trying to read some labels. The letters in those boxes will appear dark and fuzzy when looked at through cheap binoculars, while with a good set you will notice how the letters are sharp, lighted and well-defined. Don’t look out of the window to a bright street: it will tell you little about the capabilities of the binocular to perform in poor lighting conditions.

Some brands make waterproof and fog-proof binoculars by using good seals and charging the interior with an inert gas such as nitrogen, as it is more difficult to make a good seal in binoculars that have more parts than rifle scopes, and if waterproofing is important to you, consider a good name brand that will stand behind its warranty.

Look toward the borders of the glass to see if you can find any distortion in the picture. You may find some, as only the very best glasses are free of it, so just consider the brands that have the less of it.
Now that binoculars are designed by an optical computer program, it is rare to see other optical aberrations unless you are looking through a set of very cheap glasses.

That day in the Wyoming store I spend a good hour looking at different binoculars. I walked out with a Porro prisms model from Pentax (Porros are less costly than Roof of the same optical quality). I think I paid about $175.00 for it, and I never have regretted my selection.

It is just a coincidence that I selected a Pentax, as I was looking for optical quality that can be met by many brands: Bushnells, Nikons, etc. It is just that I have used Pentax cameras and I have been awed by the quality optics they have.
This one is a 7x by 35 mm Pentax PCF Porro prisms binocular and at 28 oz. not that heavy, Porros are always more bulky than roof prisms, but this particular model has good ergonomics and at 6” long by 5 ½ “ it is quite compact for a full-size glass.
This particular model have a focus lock on the focus turning wheel, when you have achieved the focus you can lock it in place by sliding the lock into place, very neat,
The right ocular has detent clicks in the diopter adjustment for the eye, another very neat feature that speaks attention to detail and innovation in the design.
While most Porros binoculars have a couple hinges connecting to the center shaft, these are designed with a more solid, all-body mass to center shaft, more like a quality roof prisms. I don’t see this binocular get knocked out of alignment by rough use anytime soon.



The glasses I have, had been replaced in the Pentax line for the new PCF WP II 8x40, and they are even better as they feature helical adjustment for eyeglass wearers instead of my old style fold down rubber eye guards, and I have noticed that they come with a rain guard for the ocular lenses tethered to the neck strap while my model has the easy-to-lose plastic caps.
As I want my optics dry and clean all the time, I had to rig my glasses with some tethering ribbons for the plastic caps attached to the strap for the oculars lenses and to the center screw cap for the objectives lenses.
And what’s more, the price of the new Porros PCF is still about the same, even lower at internet discount houses.

The exit pupil of an 8x by 40 mm is the same 5 mm as the 7x35, so these glasses should perform very well in low light situations, much better than those toy 8x20 daylight only binoculars that most folks seem to buy these days at the department store.

Good quality binoculars are a joy to use. If you can not afford the quality popular roof prisms that are in the market for about $300.00 USD, you owe yourself to look for a quality Porro prisms that for about half the price will give you just about the same optical quality.

Respectfully
Watchmaker

LEUPOLD YOSEMITE 6X 30MM
PORRO PRISMS BINOCULARS

Hi Guys:
Some things are changing in the world of optics. It uses to be that you had to spend a good chunk of money to get good optics; after all, it is difficult and requires expensive lenses, expensive anti-reflection treatment, some quality components, and precise work to mount it all and to get the optics to perform as they should.


Some optical aberrations and distortions can only be corrected the best possible. It is difficult to make good glasses to deliver a flat picture of good quality when the light ray has to pass through curved lenses.
But the new computerized optics programs than the optical engineer is using these days has brought a solution to the trial-and-error and time-consuming work that was needed to produce decent binocular blueprints in the old days.


They are several factors, beside objective size, that will determine how good the image quality in binoculars will be.
They include optical coating, quality of optics, distortions and aberrations, optical alignment, and manufacturer tolerances.

THE LEUPOLD 6X30MM YOSEMITE



Back in 1970, I came back from the jungles of South America in one piece, but minus my good Zeiss binoculars. In seventy-one, freshly married and planning a trip, I was in need of a binocular, but my budget was $25.00 (you bought a lot of gasoline with $25 in the seventies).


After looking at several on that price range, I selected a 7x35 Porro prisms Sunset (Japanese). It says in big white letters that it is an extra-wide angle (10 degrees), which, at the time, didn’t affect me since my young eyes in those days didn’t need prescription glasses (wide angle will reduce the eye relief, an important consideration to eyeglass wearers). But poor eye relief means that you have to get your eye very close to the lens to see the whole picture, which can put a drop of perspiration on the glass in hot days or fog them in the cold climate.

It also makes it impossible to focus the edges of the glass. The center will be in focus, but the edges will be blurry: this distortion is called “curvature of field,” so keep in mind to stay away from wide field-of-view glasses if you want your picture to be relatively sharp all around.

It also says that it has coated optics, which means (and I can see it) that only the exterior lenses have been coated on the outside, and that translates that a good amount of light is going to be lost throughout reflection, making them inferior to glasses that used multi-coating lenses to see in deep shadows and at dusk .

LEUPOLD YOSEMITE AND SUNSET BINOCULARS




So brightness and sharpness are affected by the amount and quality of the coating that are used in binoculars- the more the better (as much as seven coats for glass surfaces are been used now). When you think that as much as 4 % of light is lost through reflection from uncoated surfaces and that a binocular uses a total of 14 or more optical glass inside them, you will understand why multi-coats are so important for light transmission.

YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE COATING BETWEEN THEM





I can see that the lenses in the Sunset haven’t been corrected for chromatic aberrations, which means that the colors will be more muddled if I were looking at birds. Of course, correcting for color needs a set of different glass, all keyed to a certain spectrum on the color scale, which makes binoculars more expensive and will have taken me out of my $25.00 budget in those days.

Be careful of cheap binoculars with big lenses (50 to 60 or more mm of objective), as the bigger the lenses are, the more intense the chromatic aberration will be, unless it is corrected by low dispersion glass that will make the binoculars much more expensive.

Good glasses should be corrected for another aberration called “astigmatism,” which is the effect of the light at the edges of the glass that is elongated into an oval that points toward the center. This together with the “curvature of field” tends to make glasses fuzzy toward the edges. I believe my Sunset 7x35 glasses shows a good degree of astigmatism.


Of course, my 38 year-old glasses also show a good deal of spherical aberration. There is no way that ray of light passing trough the center of a normal glass can be in the same focus as the ones passing through the edges. This makes the image loss detail. Newer binoculars are now using an aspheric lens (usually in the oculars) that corrects the focus by bringing the center light rays to the same focus as edges rays of light, making the glass brightest and with increased contrast.

My Sunset glasses show some “barrel distortion.” Were a straight line placed on the edge of the field of view, it will bow outwards at the center. If that line will bow inwards at the center, it will be called “pin cushion distortion.” Good glasses correct for this distortion with quality glass, although you can still find just a little of it even in expensive glasses.

AT LEFT IS A REGULAR OPTICAL GLASS WITH CURVED SURFACES, AT RIGHT IS THE NEW AESPHERICAL LENS



My Sunset 7x35 binoculars did fine for a few years (I didn’t use them much in low light) until I replaced them in my neck for a Bushnell Custom Compact 6x 25 CF in 1974, which then started my love affair with 6x lenses.

The Bushnell Custom Compact are beautiful binoculars; light, small, and highly good optics that still sells today and is highly sought after by those that don’t want to carry full binoculars when birding or hunting.
The street price on the Custom Compact is around $250.00, and it is well worth it. I have used mine for years in hikes into the high peaks of the Adirondacks. I think so highly of them that I had bought a pair for my wife in 1976.


The only thing I always wondered was how it would perform in poor light if the objectives were as big as 30 mm instead of 25mm.
Now, after so many years, another 6x binocular has fallen into my hands, thanks to the advice of FirstFreedom, a member of TFL forum.
The Leupold Yosemite Porro prisms 6x30 is in my hands now and a beauty it is, both physically and optically.


This Leupold is miles ahead of my Sunset 7x35, the comparisons I made in low light gives a great edge to the Leupold even than the objectives are 5mm smaller in the Leupold, and the numbers for exit pupil gives both the same 5mm value (35 mm divided by 7x = 5mm and 30 mm divided by 6x = 5mm of exit pupil). The Leupold outperforms my Sunset glasses, due to better coating and better optics.


I was surprised when I put both in my fish scale because both weigh 1 lb. 1 oz., but the Leupold feels much lighter. The rubber covering and the twist up eye-piece guards are a big asset for the Leupold, as the Sunset doesn’t have any eye-piece guards at all. The Leupold Yosemite comes with a rain guard that is tethered to the elastic strap and regular caps in the objectives. That is one thing I would like to see changed; objectives should be protected with covers, such as the ones find in my Nikon Monarch, that are attached to the binocular body and not by caps that are easily lost.

Optically, the Leupold Yosemite is very superior to the Sunset glass. Some aberrations and distortions are still in the glasses, but only in a reduced amount and in the edge of the field of view, and it is okay, because only very high quality glasses like the Swarovski and Zeiss can make those defects disappear almost completely, and after all, most of us look through the center of the field anyway, and not through the edges.


Color seems to be fully corrected in the Yosemite, although I have yet to find a proper test medium to judge it (hummingbirds or woodpeckers).
Sharpness and definition are well up in the scale, leaving the Sunset glasses in the dust. That all this optical quality is attained at the cost of only less than a hundred USD is a miracle of new manufacturing techniques. I am well pleased with the new Yosemite binoculars by Leupold, I took a calculated risk when I bought them, based on the Leupold name in others optics and I am well satisfied with what I got and for the little money I got them.

Cheers
Watchmaker

I lucked out one year and got a pair of "Jason" permafocus (not sure what they are called, but they are always in focus - nice feature) for $35 at the military post exchange. Didn't think much of it at the time, but I have had these for over 14 years, I have other more expensive set-ups, but these are easy to throw up to your eyes whether you have glasses on or not. I believe "Jason" was bought out by Buschnell, as I have tried to find some larger magnification. These are 35's and they work out great for the deer and elk I chase. These binocs have taken a beating and still keep on ticking. I bought the chest harness a couple years ago - for me, these are the perfect combo no matter what I do.

I tend to spend my money on High End firearms, High End cloths and underwear, and buy Timex watches, $20.00 binoculars, and Nikon Pro-Staff Scopes.
Nothing wrong with buying all of the pricey extra stuff, but with my taste in guns, I have to stop some where.
I figure that I have to get within a few hundred yards at the most to shoot, and were I hunt in the North Country, a 60yd shot is about as long as it gets.
Anybody wants to put money down on taking some 300yd shots with the Scopes that I use, and you can claim the loss as charity on your taxes.

Start talking RELOADING Watchmaker, and I will make even YOU look sane.
Now reloading is where I go nutso and have some fun.

Eric

LEUPOLD KATMAI 6X32
BINOCULARS

I must be off my rocker. I have binoculars coming out of my ears and I just went out and ordered another.

This time the culprit that captured my heart is the Leupold Wind River Katmai binoculars, a roof prism model that is quite compact and light but offers superior viewing compared to full sized premium binoculars.

I had seen them before in catalogues such as Cabela’s and Red Head, but I never got interested because I thought they were only available in 8x32.
Having recently bought the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 binoculars, I became interested in seeing what others models they offered and discovered that the Katmai were also available in 6x32.

The reason that I am particular about the six power binoculars is that they offer a perfect magnification for the kind of close woods hunting I do.
When available in the 32 mm sized objectives, I am getting a 5.33 mm of exit pupil, giving good quality optics; the right pupil opening for the low light condition that I often glass under. I never saw any reason to own them in 8x32, as I will be getting only a 4 mm of eye pupil: no doubt good for daylight, but no good for the use I put binoculars through.
If I am going to use an eight power, then it will have to have 42 mm objectives to give me 5.25 mm of eye pupil. I already have two great pairs of glasses in that size (the Pentax and the Nikon) and I use them often, but the new Leupold Katmai is going to fulfill the same task, using less bulk and weight, which is important for me in certain instances.

Here is a picture of them together so you can appreciate the size difference. From left to right: the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 Porro prisms, the Leuopold Katmai 6x32, the Nikon Monarch 8x42, and the Pentax DCF 8x42.



I am fifty miles from New York City, so it is not possible for me to go to check binoculars every time I have a whim for them (and it happens often), so I ordered the Katmai over the mail knowing that you will not always get something over the mail that will fulfill your expectations. No such problem occurred with the Katmai binoculars, though: they are great and exactly what I expected them to be for a glass of this price and more.



I performed the usual checks and was amply satisfied with the optical quality and mechanical precision of the glasses. The ergonomics are also great for a glass of this size, and I was well pleased with my purchase.
One aspect of this purchase is worth mentioning: when looking at the Katmai 8x32 that Cabela's and Red Head have in their catalogues, the price for them was hovering around $400 to $420. I bought the Katmai 6x32 over the web for $289 shipped.
Now the question is how they compare optically with the lower priced ($98) Porro prism Leupold Yosemite binoculars, and if the $200 difference is noticeable in the optical quality.
If that difference is there, I can’t notice it! Both glasses performed well in my low light test and both are sharp and with enough resolution to satisfy the most rabid birdie.
We all know that roof prisms are more expensive and difficult to make well, so part of the money goes toward that end, perhaps of influence in the price is the fact that the Katmai are made in Japan and the Yosemite in China; we know that our money buys more Yuan than Yen.



So what is going to happen to the Yosemite 6x32 now that my new love is the Katmai? No problem on that end, since my son already declared ownership of the Yosemite, as he recently took them on a trip to Florida’s Everglades, using them in the Aninha trail and in the Flamingo point.
He came back saying, “Dad, you will never these back; they are great glasses!” Now if I can just hide the Katmai from him until he goes to college in September, I will be fine.

For those that don’t understand the obsession that possesses me, I am here to tell you that there is nothing better than to look through quality glasses. I am just in a rush to finish typing this to go and sit in my patio and look for the red-tailed hawk that has been visiting us here lately.

Cheers,
Watchmaker

Hey Watchmaker.
I hope that you don't get into as much trouble with your wife, as I do mine, purchasing expensive toys.
I don't buy expensive watches or flashlights like you do, but I sure find ways to spend money on my outdoor hobbies.
I like your taste on fine quality items.
If I had the extra cash flow, I would take your advice on eye pieces. I haven't even HEARD of the manufacturers that you have mention.
Makes me feel a tad inadequate.

Eric

Mighty fine binos there! Makes mine look like 10yr olds toys. My Tasco futuras work for me=12-60pwr/50mm octicals. Can see a bugs butterball at 250yds. Good nuff fer me. Like elyboy, spent my money on high end tools ie: Snap-on. Expensive but worth it. Dave

I own one pair of binoculars, a pair of 10X42 Kahles that set me back $750.00 four years ago. They are made in Austria in the same plant as Swarovski using the same glass,or so I am told. At any rate, in a side by side comparison I could not tell the difference between the two in visual clarity. I was actually set to buy Swarovski's but chose these because they were about $200 less. I use them frequently, even at close distances in heavy cover. A set of good bino's will reveal things in cover that a riflescope or "perma-focus" bino's will not, since you can focus into the depths of the cover.

HOW TO GLASS

Well, what now, you just put he binoculars to your eyes and look through them, right?

Just in case we have new binocular users here, I am going to explain the mechanics of glassing the right way. Not long ago a new hunter in the family was showing me his new binoculars that I noticed were adjusted in the interpupilary distance with a far greater length that I knew his eyes to be set.

When I questioned him if he was not seeing two uncompleted circles when looking through the glasses, he admitted it and was surprised when I told him that the binoculars are supposed to deliver only one circle. I guess he has seen too many movies where the view trough binoculars are shown that way.

So our first business with the binoc is to adjust the interpupilary distance by bending the barrels at the center hinge until our eyes see only one circle; that will ensure that the optical center of the glasses is in line with the center of our pupils.

Second is to adjust the diopter wheel that is usually in the right barrel; as not everybody has 20/20 vision, this wheel will adjust the focus for your right eye. To accomplish the adjustment cover the right objective with your hand or objective cap, look through the glasses and adjust the center wheel until the view is sharp and clear, now cover the left objective and adjust the diopter wheel until the view is sharp.

I used for years to do this in the reverse sequence, adjusting the diopter first and then the center wheel, you get the same results.
Look at the markings at the edge of the wheel to remember the settings in case somebody changes them, (I just put a small drop of white out correction fluid to mark the setting).

The eye relief is fixed and in modern binoculars quite generous, but the eye cups collapse to use the binoculars with your eye glasses, some models can be adjusted to stop midway or at increments so you can get your oculars lenses as far or as close as you want to your eye glasses.

Now you are ready to glass, if yours glasses are 10x they are marginal in how steady you can hold them, people varies but 10x is the magnification that can do with some serious help in holding the glasses.

Sit down and brace your elbows against your knees or sunk them into your stomach looking for the best stable position, grasp you binos with both hands but leave your index fingers free and anchor them against your temples, or alternatively grasp the edge of your cap’s bill to add another anchor point. What you are looking for is to minimize or cancel any tremors, as a jumping up and down picture magnified 10x will not let you appreciate the detail that you bought the glasses for.

With the 8x you have a little more freedom from those tremors, I have a very steady hand (I am a watchmaker) and can hold 8x glasses with one hand for relatively quick looks, but it is not recommended, after all glasses are not for quick looks.

Don’t scan with glasses, your vision should be concentrated in the center of your view, and the glasses when moving, should be moving in very small increments when you are sure that the picture that you are seeing is completely understood by your brain.

The part of the eye that does the stationary looking and captures detail is very small; it is called the macula and covers only two degrees of your vision. When looking through 8x glasses this angle decrease to ¼ of a degree, so if you want to capture the detail that you pay so much money for, keep your glasses steady and look through the center of them.

The crouch and the belly down position are also glassing positions that should be not overlooked, take a tip from African hunters and steady your glasses in the standing position with the aid of a mono pod or shooting sticks or even a walking stick.

In carrying your glasses you can do as the African white hunters do and use a long strap to place them out of the way in the left side of your body at waist level and under your arm, or hang them from your neck but with a very short strap, so they ride high on your chest and will not swing and strike another object when you bend down.

There are in the market some harnesses that will keep your binoculars close to your body when you move around, but they usually interfere with other equipment, at least in my case as I wear a back pack most of the time but for those that carry only the glasses those harnesses work well.

All the best
Watchmaker

I beg to differ on a few points....if I'm still allowed.

watchmaker wrote:

HOW TO GLASS for relatively quick looks, but it is not recommended, after all glasses are not for quick looks.

Maybe it just years of engrained muscle memory but quick looks ain't tough, not much different than a quick shot with a scoped rifle. 'Course everything hasta fit the user, and I do shoot with both eyes open.....

watchmaker wrote:

HOW TO GLASS Don’t scan with glasses, your vision should be concentrated in the center of your view, and the glasses when moving, should be moving in very small increments when you are sure that the picture that you are seeing is completely understood by your brain.

Again, muscle memory. I routinely scan with no difficulty, especially when using them at close and at mid range to penetrate the thick stuff. Just another function of the glass to me....

watchmaker wrote:

HOW TO GLASS The part of the eye that does the stationary looking and captures detail is very small; it is called the macula and covers only two degrees of your vision. When looking through 8x glasses this angle decrease to ¼ of a degree, so if you want to capture the detail that you pay so much money for, keep your glasses steady and look through the center of them.

Mmm......

Guess I'm not quite understanding all that biology. I'm dartin' all over that magnified image and can't recall a lack of detail or wanting to see it any better than I do.....

You said nothing new to me Watchmaker.
The crouch and belly down position has been used by me for years.
Every time that my Wife yells at me, I assume that position.

Eric