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reloading 223 ammo
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gunman570
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Man do I need some help here! Ihave a Dillon XL650 reloader and am trying to reload 223's. I thought all was well untill I stated getting feedback on my reloads. Everyone had the same issue...the bullet was getting stuck in the chamber...you had to phsically smash the charging handle to get the round out of the chamber. It has happened with 3 different styles of gun (223 semi-auto's bushmaster.colt,ect...). I've tried diifferent mags, super cleaning the brass after it's reload to make sure there's no case-lube left on. I have trimmed the cases well below spec...at specs..and left some a little longer...all had the same issue. I spec'd them all out with a case gage..all looked good but put them in the rifle and bammm you have a stuck cartrige! I have used a calipers and taken different measurements at 3 different spots of the case and they all spec out great! I bought a Redding small base full length die and have the same issue. Does anybody have any idea what the heck is going on?? Thanks
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k3yston3
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Are the cases getting stuck unfired? or after they have been fired? What loads are you using, and to what COL?
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Wow, you sure are having problems. I have been reloading the .223 REM for some years now and have never experienced this problem. My reloads have been used in a number of different brand rifles without problem.

The following questions come to mind:
1. Do your loaded rounds chamber easily or do they need to be forcefully chambered?
2. Does the hard extraction come before or after firing?
3. What powder and bullet weight are you using?
4. What is your load data? (This may be where your problem lies.)

You say that you have measured your cases carefully.....have you done measurements both before reloading and after reloading and before and after firing? Checking all of these measurements before and after doing something with the round may give a lead on where the problem lies.

Could also be useful to see a "before" and "after" pic or two of one of the problem cases.

Another problem area could be the chamber of your rifle, although you say that your rounds have been fired in a number of different rifles with the same problem. This definitely leads me to think that your load is the problem. Really need to see the answer to Q. 3 and 4 to work that out.

You should NOT fire anymore of your reloads until this problem is sorted out because to me it seems that your rounds are generating excessively high, possibly dangerous, pressures.

If you can gather that infomation it will give us a bit more of a chance to help you sort out this perplexing problem.

Cheers, Vince

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:38 am    Post subject: Welcome to the Forum. Reply with quote

These folks gave good advise. My only question is what is the overall length of your loaded cartridges? If the bullets are getting stuck in the chamber they may be engaging the rifling. All the best...
Gil

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

What happens when you use factory ammunition?

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gunman570
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Hi All,

Thanks for all the advise and here are some of the answers to you question:

* I am using once fired cases
* The bullets are getting stuck before they are fired...if I take a reloaded round and chamber it (either via the mag to singlely) about 80% of the time I get a stuck round and man is it tuff to get if out...you have to really hit the charging handle with force! All different types of brass are effected and without rhyme of reason..in-other-words one time a PMC round will work and then the next 3 PMC's will get stuck.
* I have check all my spec and they all check out....I use the Lyman 48 ed. as my main reference.
* I load a FMJ 55 gr bullet....and H322 as the powder...winchester primers
* I have tried almost every combo as far as case trimming and bullert seating. I have used 3 different sizing dies as well (Dillon,RCBC, and Redding). All have the same issue.
*Yes, I have compared before and after specs...The sizing die sizes them but they fail in the gun...NOW get this, if I buy factory unprimed brass and load it, EVERYTHING works great????
*Factory ammo works great...no problem...and like i said before, if I use factory unprimed brass, all is good also.

I think it has something to do with the neck?? But I can't figure out what to do to make it work?? I spent 2 more hour today playing with different combinations but non worked.

I'll try anything at this time!! THANKS

Bob
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

This is good info for me also because I'm just getting into reloading and .223 is one of them. I know on pistol dies there is an expanding die. Is there one for the .223 and if so are you over expanding and then when you crimp causes kind of like a slight roll in the case. That would show up on your once fired cases. That happened with some cheap cases for my .357. Just a thought...

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tomw
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

I've had a similar problem with a .243. It sounds like you are unintentionally neck sizing only. Try setting your sizing die down another quarter turn (you can verify that you are sizing the the shoulder by smoking the neck of the case or coloring it with a marker and then watching how far down the sizing die is going). Another possibility is that your bullet seating die is adjusted to far down and it is slightly buldging the case when the bullet is seated. You can back it off and adjust for oal with the dies adjustments. Dillions can be a son of gun to set up but once set you are good to go. They also have a great customer service dept. and might be able to help
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

There has to be something wrong with your case resizing process and/or die adjustment. Check and recheck that step.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

223 is a very common caliber, and it has been reloaded with almost every
combination of powder, primer and bullet made for it.
If you got a struck case with your reloads but not with factory ammo,
you are likely to have excessive pressure, other than that, you may have a
very tight "match" chamber.

Have you try with a lower pressure loads?
Have you try to do case trimming?
have you try to uniform your case neck thickness?
Do you reload using military case (thicker necks)?
Have you mike your bullet diameter? are they round or oval?
there is another thousand checks you could do but the main thing
I reckon is excessive pressure.

Funny, I thought that these problems happens only with wildcats.
Similar problem I got with my 300 Whisper, only to be resolved with a neck
turning to make the military cases neck thinner.

Good luck
Gelan

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gunman570
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Thanks to all for the advise adn here are some answers to questions asked:

* I have the sizing die turned down as far as possible and I checked that a dozen times.
* I use all different brands of brass cases due to the fact that I load 1000's at a time (I shoot with a group of people that have fully auto weapons).
* The loaded ammo not only gets stuck in my gun but in all brands of guns...I know 3 for sure...Bushmaster, Colt, and DPMS.
* Here's some more info..If the cartrige gets stuck, in- other-words, I can't eject it using the charging handle, most of the time the gun will fire and eject the round.
* As far as increased pressure....I have tried to reload 1000's of rounds not reloaded by myself and the problem still exists...I have tried different magazines.
** I guess I'm just trying to figure out where the trouble lies. Do you all think it's in the case neck area?? Thanks the only thing I ca't truely measure due to the angle....I have spec'd out everything else and all looks good...I have taken 3 different measurements on the case and all fall well with-in specs.~~~ I'll try marking the case neck and see what the sizer is doing and then also maybe play with the seater. Thanks to all the the great advise and keep the suggestions coming...I can't stand when I can't figure something out! This issue has been kicking my butt for a couple weeks now.

Bob
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Ok gunman570, I have an idea that your problem may be with your bullet seating and crimping die.

Assuming that you have been able to chamber a dodgy round fully and fire it, what was the extraction like....ok or hard?

Some years ago, when I first started loading 30.30, I found some rounds that where a real bitch to chamber and also extract if I didn't fire them. I eventually tracked the problem down to my seating/crimping die adjustment. It was actually causing the shoulder to bulge just a wee little bit right on the edge. The bulge was sometimes noticeable and at others times not so, but I could "feel" it if I gently run my fingers up the case from bottom to top. Even a tiny bulge was enough to make it extremely difficult to chamber a round and even harder to extract it without firing.

Mate, I wouldn't mind betting that is where your problem may well lie. Have a close look at one of your loaded rounds, do some measuring and see if everything is correct in this area.

If you can, post a pic of a fired case before reloading and a pic of one of the loaded rounds that stuck.

Let us know if everything measures up in this area so we can look further if necessary.

Cheers, Vince

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gunman570
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Hey Vince (and others),

We must have been on the same thought process so here's what I just finished doing. I dropped my sizing die (RCBS small base FL die) as far as it could possible go and then sized 4 cases (no primers..no bullet..just the case) and then singlely loaded then into my gun. 1 case ejected with a little effort, 2 took 2 hands and a lot of effort, and 1 required the old rubber mallet on the charging handle.~~~~ When I was messing with my seated die, I did see what you were talking about...just a slight buldge...so I back the seating die back and just have a slight crimp (roll).~~~ Is it really 0400 where you are Vince (the land-down -under)...man you're up early mate....later


Bob

Bob
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

Is all the once fired brass all yours? That's really important if you're neck sizing only. If you're just picking up brass and dividing them up with your mates then you should be full length sizing the brass. Some of the brass is fire formed to different weapons.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading 223 ammo Reply with quote

d_hoffman wrote:
Is all the once fired brass all yours? That's really important if you're neck sizing only. If you're just picking up brass and dividing them up with your mates then you should be full length sizing the brass. Some of the brass is fire formed to different weapons.

I think he already answered that question. Read above.

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