Primer/Brass question for the experts on here

204Shooter · Member Joined: Jan 28, 2007 Posts: 68 Location: Diana, TX

Recently, I have been developing some loads for my Savage 12FV in 204 Ruger. These loads have ranged from light to near max. I am using once fired Hornady brass, CCI 400 primers, RL15 and BL(C)2, and 40 grain Hornady V-MAX bullets. I have found a load that my gun likes. This past weekend, I reloaded this same brass again. I notice that the primer pockets looked "different." By different, I mean I can see the three legs of the primer anvil indented on the inside of the primer pocket of the brass. I don't ever remember seeing this indentation before. I have no idea if this indentation is bad or not. Maybe it has been there before without me ever noticing it. I also reload for my 30-06 but I haven't see this indentation on those cartridges before. On the next batch of shells, I have changed the primer to Remington 7 1/2s. Has anyone else seen this condition before?

204shooter

skb2706 · Member Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 269

No expert here but if the anvil legs are indenting the inside of the primer pocket it is likely you are seating them with too much force or the pockets are too shallow.

Bushmaster

No...Absolutely not...Keep seating them as you were. More then likely the anvil marks are caused by the fired primer being slamed back into the primer pocket. I have seen these three marks on a lot of my warm to hot loads in both handgun and rifle. Not a problem at all. If you try to seat your primers lighter you may end up with misfires caused by the pin strike seating the primer for you. If this occurs, try to fire them again and I would bet they would fire. I say again. Not a problem. Seat your primers as you have been.

skb2706 · Member Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 269

Bushmaster wrote:

No...Absolutely not...Keep seating them as you were. More then likely the anvil marks are caused by the fired primer being slamed back into the primer pocket. I have seen these three marks on a lot of my warm to hot loads in both handgun and rifle. Not a problem at all. If you try to seat your primers lighter you may end up with misfires caused by the pin strike seating the primer for you. If this occurs, try to fire them again and I would bet they would fire. I say again. Not a problem. Seat your primers as you have been.

That not only doesn't make sense ...it is wrong. You have no way to know how hard he is seating the primers. If you do it must be magic.

Bushmaster

I have crushed primers into a primer pocket and still had them fire. I have had primers SNAP into the pockets and they fired. I have seated primers that ended up dented by the primer ram on my Lee Auto prime II when they went in slightly cockeyed and they fired... Unless he has tried to push them completely through the pocket into the powder area of the case he hasn't put too much pressure on them primers. If they didn't go off when he installed them then he didn't push them in too hard. Cut me a break...I've been doing this for a long time...And I am magical. Mad

1895ss · Last edited by 1895ss on Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total

My .02 would be that if there were no miss fires then more then likely the primers were seated far enough. I have never been able to crush a primer to the point that it would not work. I don't know if it's possible to even jamb it in that hard. Rolling Eyes

Come to think of it.......... I've never in my 25 or more years of reloading had a primer go bang while priming cases.

popgun

Get a hand primer then you can feel when the primer is seated to the bottom of the pocket without deforming the primer as when priming with a reloading press.
With hand priming you will get consistent ignition of your rounds and consistant accuracy. This is basic reloading and those that disagree need to spend some reading room time reading about primer seating. The subject is covered in most reloading manuals.

1895ss

popgun wrote:

Get a hand primer then you can feel when the primer is seated to the bottom of the pocket without deforming the primer as when priming with a reloading press.
With hand priming you will get consistent ignition of your rounds and consistant accuracy. This is basic reloading and those that disagree need to spend some reading room time reading about primer seating. The subject is covered in most reloading manuals.

Sorry popgun but I have to disagree with you. I have always used my RCBS Rock Chucker press to prime cases and I can feel the primers bottom every time and have always got consistent ignition and accuracy. Reading won't make it any better. I have never crushed a primer and I have never had one that wasn't totally seated. It boils down to watching what your doing. In other words like my Karate teacher used to say, "where ever you are, be there". Neutral

204Shooter · Member Joined: Jan 28, 2007 Posts: 68 Location: Diana, TX

Well lots of ideas out there. I use a hand primer but I have to admit, I use two thumbs to seat the primers. I want them below or at least even with the head. I don't like to see any sticking out. I am a big guy and maybe I need to use a little less force? BTW, several of loads I have described were pretty accurate. One load with 5 shots gave .910 inch with 4 of the holes covered by a dime and of course one a little out. Another of the loads gave a 5 shot group of .790 inch again with 4 covered by a dime. None of the loads were at max or what I would call hot - just a good load at ~3750 ft/sec for 40 grain bullets. I really like the 40 grain Hornady V-MAX bullets and I just bought some Hornady 45 grain SP to try out. I have loaded some new brass to see if the Remington primers make any difference. I'll let you guys know. Also Bushy, I haven't had any misfires.

Bushmaster

I also use a Lee single stage press and a Lee Auto Prime II to prime my cases. I have no problem being able to feel when the primers are seated using this system that, by the way, is pictured on the "Hand priming verses Press priming" string.

204Shooter...Didn't say you had any misfires. Said you could have misfires if you lightened up too much when you seated primers.

Primers, by the way, are tough little suckers. They can survive water soakings, WD-40 soakings and all kinds of other solutions to try to kill them. Let dry for a couple of days and they will be able to be set off again. Not all, but a large portion of them. The only way to kill a primer and be sure it is dead is to hit it with a firing pin. So press away...

sniper

I have never noted any indentations of the anvil legs in the primer pocket.

I also use a hand tool; actually, two. RCBS for rifle, and Lee for pistol. I have seen burned residue in the pocket, and clean spots where the anvil legs protect the brass.

How do the primers look? Do they still have a radius on them, or have they flattened and expanded to fill the primer pocket from side to side? That is one indication of a very hot load, and regardless of what the manual says, in your rifle, it is max or overmax.

Do you have "sticky" extraction, hard bolt lift, or pierced primers? If not, then proceed with shooting your loads.

But, dropping whatever load you choose by .5 gr. , if it gives acceptable accuracy, won't hurt a thing, because the varmint will never know the difference. Very Happy

Good luck with your search!

moose2

Bushmaster wrote:

I have crushed primers into a primer pocket and still had them fire. I have had primers SNAP into the pockets and they fired. I have seated primers that ended up dented by the primer ram on my Lee Auto prime II when they went in slightly cockeyed and they fired... Unless he has tried to push them completely through the pocket into the powder area of the case he hasn't put too much pressure on them primers. If they didn't go off when he installed them then he didn't push them in too hard. Cut me a break...I've been doing this for a long time...And I am magical. Mad

"Magic" the missing ingredient= Priceless Ya gotta love it!--tr

204Shooter · Member Joined: Jan 28, 2007 Posts: 68 Location: Diana, TX

Sniper, I have dropped the load back some because the best accuracy was not the fastest load. I have not experienced sticky extraction or a hard bolt lift and never any pierced primers. My primers are "rounded" and protruding slightly from the head after firing. I have checked some of my commercial fired cartridges and they have similar looking primers after firing. If the condition is due to a hot load then I had several hot loads (which is possible). The anvil leg marks were showing up on almost every piece of brass even though some of the loads were near the minimum recommended by Hornady. I have verified my balance beam scale to ensure it is accurate since I weighed each load. I wish I had kept the brass segregated after firing. That would help me to determine if the loads were too hot. I could of matched anvil leg marks with each load and determined if the hotter loads were worse. My next test is to change brass (Remington) and primers (also Remington) and hone my best accuracy load in. I am going to keep the brass segregated and then see if I have the same problem.

1895ss

I don't know if I would be overly concerned about the three primer leg indentations in the brass as long as your load, using current reload data, is not over the pressure limit as per usual indications and you are sure you have seated primers to the fullest depth. I think Bushy's, right if you're not getting high pressure signs, no missfires and the load is accurate, so what...........!

PaulS

I have had the three marks on my 06 brass when using a Lee hand primer, the RCBS hand primer, the priming tool on the Rockchucker press and when seated with the old Lee $9 reloading set in a box. The brass at the rear of your case is soft - it happens to new brass more than old brass. It has never presented a problem for me in ignition or accuracy. As long as you are maintaining your accuracy then keep on doing what you were doing. The brass anvil in the primer is harder than the brass in your case and it is leaving its signature. After a short time your cases will harden up and it won't be an issue. I use the CCI primers too - Don't give it a thought. Keep your eye on the accuracy ang ignition. if you don't notice anything going bad then let it be.
Between Bushmaster and me we have a hundred or so years of experience throwing bullets down range. If you can't trust old loaders who can you trust?