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Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

www.thebestofthewest.n...nPromo.wmv
(34MB file so be forewarned about the size!)

Man this is some pretty impressive shooting under field conditions. I dont believe more than a handful of people should ever attempt shots like these but Wow do these guys seem to have it worked out. I thought I had made some pretty impressive shots in my day but nothing compared to this.

Thoughts?


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jkhunterid
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Unreal shooting. I killed a cow elk one year at 600 yards,but would be hard pressed to repeat it. Now it looks like I'll have to buy some more dvd's.
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BillPa
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

I wacked a few whitetails in the 8-900 yard range and quite a few groundhogs past 1000,but I was shooting a UL gun off a bench. These guys were shoot'n sporters off sticks and pods...AMAZING!

Bill
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moose2
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

This post sounds really interesting, but my computer won't handle the load.
Would one of you that has been able to view it mind posting a synopsis of it. Would be very appreciative of that. Thanks--tr

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grimel
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Don't really care who it is or how they are doing it. If it's on live unwounded animals it's a stunt. Random wind or animal movement and you have a wounded animal an hour away.

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Would I do it, No Way!

These senarios are not for the normal hunter. These individuals train for this and there rifles are full custom by the looks of what I could see. I really am afraid that the average individual may attempt this and don't feel that they have the slightest idea of what is involved. Shooting targets at long range is one thing but Big Game Animals are another. Don' get me wrong, there are individuals that can perform consistantly at long range but they have the equipment, traning and they wait for the perfect shot.

I use a .223 at times here in NC but limit my shots to those that are only under optimum conditions and proper bullets. I use the 60gr Bear Claw or the Nosler Partition. Every one that I've pulled the trigger on went down like a sack of rice with a shot to the base of the skull and severed the brain stem. Optimum shot placement and waiting for only the perfect shot.
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

moose2 wrote:
This post sounds really interesting, but my computer won't handle the load.
Would one of you that has been able to view it mind posting a synopsis of it. Would be very appreciative of that. Thanks--tr

Its basically the "Best of the West" crew advertising for a video teaching people how to make long shots under field conditions. They show alot of shooting targets at 500 to over 1000 yards, but also 600-700 yard shots on big game. The very beginning of it shows a guy dump an elk with a single shot at 743 yards. They stress its not for everyone and their crew spends a ton of time practicing to have the ability and confidence to pull it off.


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delboy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

grimel wrote:
Don't really care who it is or how they are doing it. If it's on live unwounded animals it's a stunt. Random wind or animal movement and you have a wounded animal an hour away.
Grimel, I gotta go with you there buddy. I've shot a few long range targets in my time (when I was in the army) but they asked for it. Shooting an animal at that range sucks - especially if you wound the poor beast and can't get another one off in time to end it. Not my kind of enjoyment, targets don't matter if you're a few inches off just so long as the group is tight but f**k chasing something down for what could turn out to be a very long time - just for entertainment. Mad

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moose2
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

DallanC,
Thanks for the synopsis. I Appreciate that. It sounds also to me that this type of shooting at big game would be something that I would consider unethical. Some place in the equation there should be some semblance of fair chase and to me this type of hunting isn't it. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

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BillPa
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Unethical?
Ya know, after 46 years of hunting, reloading and building rifles( doing the work,not just writing checks) I've seen damn near everything. I've seen deer with jaws shot off ,legs missing,gutshots and few laying that just were never found. Here in east, the normal range on whtetails is under 50 yards,yet these things happen. Whats ethical about that? Is unloading 5-6 rounds at a running deer ethical? Texas heart shots? Does range determine how ethical the hunt may be regardless of skill level and equipment? Because you don't or can't, is it unthical? You never missed or had to track an anmal? Wind,tree limbs or lighting never affect your shots? Ever put more than one round in the gun? Why? Some of the best archery hunters routinely have to track deer,some only found the following day. Unethical????

Fair Chase? Whats that? Is being fully camo'd in a treestand fair chase? Baiting where legal? Concealed 100 yards away shooting at an animal that doesn't even know your on the same planet? Your or my huntiing style only?

Sure,they're trying to sell their videos showing only the hits,never the misses, but how is that any different than other stuff advertisers constantly spew out in the firearms world.

Unless you have "been there,done that" I suggest you explore the subject before making an uneducated opinion. Stunt? Gimmick? Luck? Safe to say they didn't buy their guns and ammo at Wally World the day before the hunt. Take the time(a few years!) ,get with the guys that shoot long range and spend a measley couple thousand dollars trying it. You just might get an education.

And for the record, yes I've shot at and have taken 3 deer at long range (for me anyway), all one shot kills, the longest being a fine 8 point at 910 yards. 6 with a bow (had to track those) ,over a hundred in 4 states and passed on more shots than I can remember. Eight times,count'm,I had to use more than one round ,lost a total of 2, had to track a few ,and unlike many others will claim,I missed a time or three. The only guys I know that never screwed up either never hunted or may be bending the truth a tad regardless of the range involved.

Ok, enogh of this. Ammo needs to be loaded and get the the range.

Bill
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delboy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Phew! Methinks this is going to be a touchy subject! I take onboard what Bill says in the previous post, but can anyone tell me just what a "Texas heart shot" is? Sorry to appear thick but haven't come across that one before - one of the problems of living on the "wrong" side of the pond!
Bill - I respect what you say but just can't find it in me to agree with you - not that that matters a damn to you or anyone else - if, as you say, people are not placing shots at 50 yds. then they shouldn't be permitted to point a gun at a live target. I learned to shoot at live targets 40 years ago, the difference being that if you didn't get it right first time the target shot back at you! Taught me to place my shots carefully, I can tell you!

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

delboy wrote:
but can anyone tell me just what a "Texas heart shot" is?

Imagine a trophy deer facing exactly, perfectly away from you. The "Texas heart shot" is putting a bullet right up the anus, through the guts of the animal.

I once was a subscriber to a magazine that had a feature of "Would you take the shot?" showing animals in different pose's. You answered yourself if there was a shot and where you would shoot and then compare it with the articles answer. After a few months sure enough, they had a picture of a big mule deer facing away, I said no shot and then checked there answer to see them saying theres not only a shot, but its a "good one" too! No thanks, I cancelled the next day.

Quote::
Bill - I respect what you say but just can't find it in me to agree with you - not that that matters a damn to you or anyone else - if, as you say, people are not placing shots at 50 yds. then they shouldn't be permitted to point a gun at a live target. I learned to shoot at live targets 40 years ago, the difference being that if you didn't get it right first time the target shot back at you! Taught me to place my shots carefully, I can tell you!

I've seen people who can't hit a milk jugg at 100 yards out deer hunting and I've seen people who take and make 500+ yard shots without thinking. It all comes down to skill and staying within your limits and comfort zone. I think its impressive what these guys can do but as I stated initially, the vast majority of people out there shouldnt be even thinking about shots this long.


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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

DallanC wrote:
I've seen people who can't hit a milk jugg at 100 yards out deer hunting and I've seen people who take and make 500+ yard shots without thinking. It all comes down to skill and staying within your limits and comfort zone. I think its impressive what these guys can do but as I stated initially, the vast majority of people out there shouldnt be even thinking about shots this long.


-DallanC

I agree Dallan whens it comes to atempting to take a animals life a man must no his limitations, we owe it to the animals we persue.

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delboy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Thanks for clearing that up for me Dallan. I think that we are of the same mind as to when a shot is feasible, it's not just whether or not you CAN do it, it's also (to my mind at least) if you SHOULD do it. SO many things can go wrong and very often do. I once lost a shoot-off in a .22 competition due to a pigeon landing on my sight line! Targets 9, pigeons 1 and that cost me a very pretty glass trophy! If I hadn't of killed it, I would have shot the bugger again!! Smile

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grimel
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

BillPa wrote:
Unethical?
Ya know, after 46 years of hunting, reloading and building rifles( doing the work,not just writing checks) I've seen damn near everything. I've seen deer with jaws shot off ,legs missing,gutshots and few laying that just were never found. Here in east, the normal range on whtetails is under 50 yards,yet these things happen. Whats ethical about that?

Is unloading 5-6 rounds at a running deer ethical? Texas heart shots?

Nothing, they are just as big of idiots.


Quote::

Does range determine how ethical the hunt may be regardless of skill level and equipment? Because you don't or can't, is it unthical? You never missed or had to track an anmal? Wind,tree limbs or lighting never affect your shots? Ever put more than one round in the gun? Why? Some of the best archery hunters routinely have to track deer,some only found the following day. Unethical????

Unless you have "been there,done that" I suggest you explore the subject before making an uneducated opinion. Stunt? Gimmick? Luck? Safe to say they didn't buy their guns and ammo at Wally World the day before the hunt. Take the time(a few years!) ,get with the guys that shoot long range and spend a measley couple thousand dollars trying it. You just might get an education.


Okay, so picking a 7mm, and using a Berger VLD 180gr (which is designed expressly for long range target shooting) launched at 3400fps it only takes ,9sec (give or take a few hundredths) to travel 900 yds. Assuming the shooter can shoot a 6" group at 900yds if the animal moves one step where did the bullet hit? Change to a bullet designed for hunting and the time to impact changes to a bit over 1.1 sec. Do you really want to depend on an animal not moving for that long?

Why more than one shot? Well, I've never been one to subscribe to the one shot kill being a great thing, but to the one shot and if it isn't going down shoot it again. I want it dead and I want it dead as quickly as possible.

The current WR is 6 1/8" at 1000yds. This is a short excerpt from the article on the new WR article on the SAME shooter on the SAME days (just different gun) "Yes, I'd say that's what you'd call a successful match. Lest you feel that Richard is a super-human, however, we have to tell you about that wicked wind switch in Saturday's Heavy Gun relay. Shooting his string quickly, he misread the shift, and got only 3 of 10 shots on paper. That just proves this sort of thing does happen to everyone sooner or later." Do understand this man is shooting from a concrete bench with wind flags at a known/certified range. ALL it takes is one shift and/or gust of wind to throw the shot off target. Out to 300yds the standard rifles and loads (assuming a rifle only shooting 2" groups) would still be in the kill zone with the same shift/gust of wind.

There are a LOT of people doing a LOT of unethical and stupid things, one doesn't justify the other. One of the reasons I've went back to rifles during gun season is I haven't had the time to maintain the level of practice needed be ethical with a 44 revolver or 7-30W Contender.

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