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Please Explain
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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delboy
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Joined: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 240
Location: London England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Please Explain Reply with quote

Hi guys. Been reading through the "first gun" posts and I'm at a loss as to how many guns you guys have - Cal has 21 rifles!! How does your licensing system work over there? As a guide (and to explain my amazement), ours goes something like this:
First you MUST attend a recognised gun club every week for a minimum 6 months probationary period before they decide whether or not to accept you as a member. Having finally joined, you then get a safe and contact the police for a background check. This includes a statement from your doctor to say you are of sound mind and fixed trousers, you must also provide two character witnesses of standing - judge, accountant, professional person, etc. - to vouch for your character. Finally, you have to show the police good reason as to WHY you need (note the NEED - not WANT) the rifle in the first place. Assuming that you can do all this, a license will be issued. This will cover how many guns you will be permitted to have, what calibres they can be, how many rounds can be in your possession at any one time, WHERE you can shoot (oh yes, didn't I mention that? The place you intend to use the rifle has to be approved by the police before you can pull a trigger) - and for the first six months of your license you can ONLY shoot where the license authorises you to. The license also specifies WHAT you are allowed to shoot at - if you tell them 'deer' and you go after a fox................ DEEP shit!!!! You must have 'vermin' on your license for that - you have to specify every species you intend to go after, and why (eg. pest control). If shooting on someone else's land, you must have WRITTEN permission from them with you when you shoot - don't you DARE leave that at home. ANY transgression from the regulations and your license is pulled immediately and very rarely returned. When shooting in a club, ammunition is dispensed and cases are counted afterwards. BIG trouble if the two don't match up.
Perhaps this will give you guys some idea of the pleasure (?) of rifle shooting in England and just why I am so baffled as to how Cal gets to own an armoury! Strangely enough, in the case of shotguns I can go out and buy as many as I can afford as my license doesn't specify any restrictions there and they just get written onto it by the seller to account for where it's gone. I can also hold as many shotgun shells as I want, but NO solid slugs - they come under a different licensing system and fall in with rifles and all that goes with them. No rifled barrels are allowed in shotguns either as that makes them a rifle, as does a barrel less than 24 inches. Confused? Hmmm..............

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Flint54
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Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 389
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

Shocked Delboy, with the restrictions you have across the pond you would probably pass out seeing what we go through here in the US.

Things have gotten stricter in the past 20 years or so and each state may have some other restrictions than what is mandated federally. I will give you the basic federal guidlines.

Rifle / Shotgun:

(Going Thru Liscenced Dealer)(Wal-Mart, Target, Local Gunshop, any Retail Business)

The individual must be 18 years of age, they must have a state issued picture I.D., then they can go into any establishment within their state or a boardering state. They then fill out the Federal Form 4733 or is it 4377.
Once the form is filled out the dealer calls for an instant background check, if there are no problems with this check they hand over their $$ and take their new purchase with them.


Pistol:

There is a waiting period, must be 21 and purchase within you state of residence. If purchased elsewhere it must be sent to a Liscenced Dealer before it can be transfered to you, same Federal paperwork applies. BUT, each state had different regulations that govern the sale of pistols. There is no way I can cover them all. It is generally a bit more difficult getting a pistol but wayyy easier for us than it is for you.

Muzzle Loading Firearms:

Some states have adopted regulations similar to Federal for Rifle/Shotgun but most allow mail order sales without any restrictions, I guess that a fllintlock is not the weapon of choice for drive bys or robberys. Twisted Evil

Fully Automatic and Any Other Weapon:

Full Auto has been restricted to those made prior to Clinton's Crime Bill and a Federal Tax of $200.00 along with scads of paperwork for a background check goes to BATFE, after 6 months or more if approved and your state of residence allows you, you may take possession from a Class III Dealer.

Any Other Weapon (AOW) same paperwork and a $5.00 Transfer tax for short bbl Shotgun (under 18") or overall legnth under 26". I have one of these, a Rem. 870, pistol grip with 14" bbl.

There are numerous sights that you can get the various regulations from but the best links I've seen so far are those in the NRA website.

I think I've hit the basic regs fairly correctly, if I haven't please do make corrections as you see fit. I haven't purchased a firearm from a dealer in @ 10 years, all have been private sales.

Private Sales of any standard Rifle/Shotgun/Pistol:

No checks, no paperwork etc from person to person sale: ** The seller SHOULD know the person who is buying the firearm for the sellers best intrests. (Pistol, Rifle or Shotgun)

Ammunition:

Federally no restrictions on caliber (.510 & Under) or ammount. Some states have restrictions, I don't live in them nor will I!! New York, New Jersey, Massachuchets(?), Republik of Kalifornia (Land of the Fruits & Nuts) to name the worst.

Thats it for a general idea, maybe you should think about re-locating and joining us. Its a Great Country!! Wink
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GroovyJack
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Joined: May 21, 2005
Posts: 577
Location: Bama

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

Flint pretty well covered it . Me mate Tony in Australia has pretty much the same junk to go thru as you do there . After he comes here in January 06 , he's been told he'll probably never go back .. Who would want to ??
As for pistol/revolver , we have the waiting period in place , I think , in Alabama . You have to have a permit to carry , go to local sheriff , give him $20 , does a background check , to make sure you aren't a criminal with warrants , and if you're OK , then good for one year .. Dont get caught carring pistol/revolver without permit ..
Safes arent 'required' , no limits on number of firearms or ammunition ( some of the socialist states Flint mentioned are kind of vague on some of this ) , New York, for example doesnt allow private sales , if I want to sell Flint a firearm , it has to go thru a licensed dealer , if we were in New York ...
Dont have to be a member of an 'approved' range/shooting club . In fact with the current law in Alabama , I can fire on my property with the only restriction being that I have to be a minimum distance from the roads ..
Jack

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DallanC
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Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3120
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

No waiting period on rifles or pistols here in Utah. Just fill out the paper work, pay $6 for the background check and walk out the door with it. Actually the last gun I bought about 6 weeks ago, they didnt even make the background check phone call... just let me fill out the form, pay for it and let me go. Personally I think they goofed but whatever.

Buying guns from non-dealers, you just pay for it and take it. Zero paperwork required.

As for total count I dont have near what others have... but still when we recarpeted and repainted our downstairs rooms due to a flood, I lined up all our rifles along a wall for a good oiling before I put'em back in the old safe... I was kinda amazed to see 14 long-guns all lined up. I wouldnt mind picking up another 2 or 3. I'd love to get a winchester lever action replica and perhaps a 375H&H. I'm also really due for a new shotgun as my current one has lasted me 20 years and is showing signs of heavy use and abuse.

PS: My wife owns 2 guns herself, a Rem700 .243 BDL and a Rem700 ADL .30-06 in Stainless ... shes shot quite alot of deer and antelope now Smile


-DallanC
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GroovyJack
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Joined: May 21, 2005
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Location: Bama

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

Been so long sing I bought a short gun thrua dealr , dont know if our waiting period is still in or not ..
Dallan , everybody needs a 375 H@H , mine has become my workhorse , deer on up ...
Jack

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Gil Martin
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
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Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:02 pm    Post subject: These folks covered it Reply with quote

In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania there is no waiting period for rifles, shotguns, handguns or muzzleloaders. Just be of age (over 18 for long guns or 21 for handguns), complete the Federal Form #4473, do the background check, pay for the gun and go. For handguns, there is an additional state form to be completed and that's it. I bought a muzzleloader yesterday and merely handed the money to the gun shop owner and took my prize home. We are not restricted regarding the number of firearms we may legally own. My good friend has over 800 firearms in his home vault. All the best...
Gil

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kbis
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Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

To my knowledge, Texas is the same as Pennsylvania, except there is no additional form for handguns.

Delboy- at last count there were 27 rifles and 12 pistols in my gun safe. I don't think I could cut it in the U.K. Smile .

Ken
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popgun
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Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

Laughing Full Auto, pay $200 for the license then $20,000 for a CAR style Colt M-16. Toys for rich boys.

See Dallan,
I keep telling you to get that 375 H&H. You will love it if you do.
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calsibley
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

With us in Canada the major problem is in obtaining the Firearms Acquisition Certificate. We require personal and business referrences, testimonials from neighbors. All of this is a damn nuisance to obtain. The cost is $60., and it's good for 5 years. Remember, up here we're not licensing the gun, but the owner. The questions you're asked are banal, like: have you experienced a marriage breakup or a divorce recently, have you been discharged from a job, had fights with your neighbors. They go out of their way to check on your mental status. Once we have the license we're home free. Go anywhere in Canada, plop the money on the counter and leave with your gun. The seller will register it for you. The main drawback to our gun laws is they have a large nuisance value.

Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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DallanC
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Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

popgun wrote:
:lol: Full Auto, pay $200 for the license then $20,000 for a CAR style Colt M-16. Toys for rich boys.

Geeze are they really that much? I never really looked into it. Personally if I were going to buy a "rich boy" toy gun, it would be a .50BMG Barrett Semi-Auto. Man those things look fun.

Quote::
See Dallan,
I keep telling you to get that 375 H&H. You will love it if you do.

Haha If there where more things to hunt around here I would. But 1 deer and 1 (possibly) 2 elk just isnt enough to rotate through the guns.


-DallanC
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hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

50 cal is prohibited here in canada ,ar varients are restricted , ak varients are prohibeted as well
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popgun
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Posts: 735
Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

Quote::
Haha If there where more things to hunt around here I would. But 1 deer and 1 (possibly) 2 elk just isnt enough to rotate through the guns.

Rolling Eyes There ya go trying to justify buying a new gun to play with. Laughing

Razz Isn't just the fun of shooting it all the justification you need Very Happy Twisted Evil

Exclamation You could always buy it for your son now and use it till he get's big enough to shoot it Wink

Hummm, He is almost that big now I bet Question
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shrpshtrjoe
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Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2955
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

Howdy. Here in MD it's about the same as PA, back ground check fill out the form walk out with a long gun and a 3 day waiting period for hand guns, muzzleloaders you just buy it and walk out, and no limit on how many guns you can own Smile Smile . They did have a ban on high capacity mags here in MD but that was lifted Smile

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Knifeboy
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Joined: Feb 09, 2005
Posts: 165
Location: The Arizona desert

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

Hey Joe,
I belive the high capacity ordinance was a nationwide deal. It didnt prohibit you from purchasing or using them, it only prohibited the manufacturing of them.
Anyways, Here in Arizona you can have as many of whatever you want whenever you want them. 10min background check and Vuala you go home with a another gun. Its even easier if you buy from someone who is not a dealer just pay them and you have another gun, no background check necissary.
I love Arizona. As for gun count I will just say that I have my fair share of them, and I always want more. I know its not good to have addictions, but at least its not a bad one.

Knifeboy

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delboy
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Joined: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 240
Location: London England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Please Explain Reply with quote

[quote="popgun"]:lol: Full Auto, pay $200 for the license then $20,000 for a CAR style Colt M-16. Toys for rich boys.
FULL AUTO??? You gotta be shittin' me! Over here even the police aren't allowed fully automatic weapons! Only the army has them. Police have H&K MP35 sub-machine guns but they are restricted (physically) to single shot. We are allowed semi auto .22 rifles and semi auto shotguns (capacity 2 rounds or 8 rounds, depending on your licence). Long guns over .22 must be bolt action only. We also have two kinds of licence - shotgun certificate or firearm certificate, sgc is much easier to get as the police have to show why you can't have one whereas with a fac you have to prove need of the gun. SGC holders are limited to magazines with a max. capacity of 2 rounds, any more than this and the gun becomes a firearm with much more stringent regulations. With rifles you also have to show proof of continuous use and need or it will be lifted. As a general rule, you have to shoot at least once a fortnight or you don't need the gun as far as the police (who control licensing) are concerned. They check club records weekly and every shot fired has to be logged by the club.

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