HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 360
BOT: 1
Total: 361
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Your Account
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Home
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Your Account
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Your Account
22: Photo Albums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Photo Albums
28: Your Account
29: Forums
30: Your Account
31: Your Account
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Your Account
36: Your Account
37: Forums
38: Home
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Photo Albums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Photo Albums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Your Account
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Your Account
57: Forums
58: Photo Albums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Your Account
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Your Account
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Home
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Your Account
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Your Account
83: Forums
84: Photo Albums
85: Your Account
86: Home
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Home
90: Your Account
91: Your Account
92: Forums
93: Photo Albums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Home
97: Photo Albums
98: Home
99: Forums
100: Photo Albums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Your Account
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Your Account
108: Forums
109: Home
110: Photo Albums
111: Home
112: Forums
113: Your Account
114: Photo Albums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Photo Albums
119: Your Account
120: Home
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Photo Albums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Your Account
143: Forums
144: Photo Albums
145: Photo Albums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Home
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Photo Albums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Photo Albums
161: Photo Albums
162: Your Account
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Photo Albums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Your Account
169: Your Account
170: Home
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Home
175: Home
176: Home
177: Home
178: Home
179: Forums
180: Your Account
181: Photo Albums
182: Forums
183: Home
184: Photo Albums
185: Your Account
186: Home
187: Forums
188: Home
189: Home
190: Forums
191: Your Account
192: Forums
193: Home
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Home
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Your Account
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Photo Albums
208: Photo Albums
209: Photo Albums
210: Home
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Photo Albums
214: Forums
215: Your Account
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Your Account
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: News
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Home
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Your Account
233: Forums
234: Photo Albums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Photo Albums
243: Home
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Home
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Home
251: Home
252: Forums
253: Your Account
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Your Account
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Photo Albums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Your Account
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Your Account
273: Home
274: Your Account
275: Photo Albums
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Photo Albums
279: Photo Albums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Your Account
286: Forums
287: Home
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Photo Albums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Photo Albums
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Your Account
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Your Account
308: Forums
309: Your Account
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Photo Albums
313: Forums
314: Your Account
315: Photo Albums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Photo Albums
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Your Account
324: Home
325: Photo Albums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Photo Albums
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Your Account
336: Forums
337: Your Account
338: Your Account
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Home
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Forums
347: Your Account
348: Forums
349: Forums
350: Forums
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Photo Albums
354: Forums
355: Your Account
356: Home
357: Forums
358: Home
359: Forums
360: Your Account
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

well i finally today ordered one of the 60s made .308 ishapore 2A enfields and now need to work up a load for it.

ill be using

165 gr gamekings hpbt
accurate 2520 powder
CCI mag rifle primers
once fired win brass


ive read online how the ishy .308 isnt designed for commercial .308 winchester ammo or reloads and after looking at several reloading books and online it appears to me that both 308 commercial and 308 nato rounds put out the same pressures and FPS {its not easy findiong load data for 7.62x51}.

but im fairly new to reloading and have never reloaded 308 so can anyone give me some suggestions on some 308 load info i can use in my ishy.

i was given 1000 empty once fired winchester pieces of brass which i really want to use.

it appears to me using accurate 2520 designed specifically for 308 nato shouldnt be a problem in a 308 nato ishy but i dont want to be wrong.

p.s. the 165 gr gamekings {which i bought new for 15 dollars a hundred lol} will be my largest bullet weight for deer hunting.

all the other grain weight bullet i would use ie 110s, 125s, 150s, 180s,and 200s are all within pressure tolerances of a ishy in good shape{under 50,000 pressure units according to my second edition lee reloading manual}
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

Spacedone,

Not much is avalible for the 7.62x51mm NATO Sad But check this out:

Quote::
While the 7.62mm NATO cartridge has a maximum chamber pressure of approximately 50,000 pounds per square inch (psi), in the SAAMI book the .308 Winchester has a MAP (maximum average product) pressure of approximately 62,000 psi* (each by conformal transducer measurements, and therefore comparable)

www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

yes ive found that but my lee and my accurate book both show the accurate 2520 producing under 50,000 cup pressure so by reason they should be fine. only a few bullet weights go over the pressure {not even counting the safty tolerance built in to the reciever}.
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

Ah ok well in that case Spacedone I dont think it should be any more deficult then loading a few cases and working your way up Smile

Hope you enjoy the range time with the Ishy. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
ddgsnipe
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

Spacedone:

Here is a very interesting article on the ishy and it even includes some reloading data.
www.surplusrifle.com/s.../index.asp

And another article on the differences between the 7.62 NATO and the 308.
www.surplusrifle.com/s.../index.asp

I found the info on military ammunition that I was trying to find yesterday when I posted in your other topic. If you look at chapter 11 you will find the actual military recipes for the various 7.62 rounds. It lists the Ball M59 cartridge as 46gr of WC846 over a 150.5gr projectile with a maximum pressure of 50,000 PSI(not CUP).
www.dodsbir.net/sitis/...sheets.pdf

There are reloading books that specifically list loads for the 7.62X51. I believe the Hornady manual is one but I do not have it. I will check the books that I do have tonight and list any info that I might have.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Jack
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 19, 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

2520 is a really good choice of powder for the 308, IME. That's all my 308 sees these days.
Were it me, I'd stay a bit below max loads, in deference to the action, but that's really another topic......
Back to top
View user's profile
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

since i found the 2520 i dont load anything else. i load for a 1917 30 06 eddystone enfield, a no 4 mkI* 303 longbranch {sport}, a 1943 no4 mki* original 303 longbranch, and a 1943 no1 mk III {factory sported}. and now ill use it in my 308 {notice a enfield fetish lol}.

it burns clean and shoots better than anyother powder ive bought.

all the 303, 308, and the 30 06 have comparable FPS and power so the 2520 works so very well. the funny part is i use a lee powder scoop for my reloading and they all basically use the same scoop {powder load} so its not only easier but safer.
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
ddgsnipe
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

I checked all of my manuals and do not have anything specific for the 7.62X51. Maybe somebody else has some that they would like to share?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

My Hornady Manual lists data for the 308 it has no loads specific to the 7.62 x 51. All my data manuals list the 308 not the NATO round.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

I was looking on the net for information about the 7.62x51mm NATO and the 308 Win. Apparently although the pressure numbers are different they arnt messured the same way.

PSI is used on the civilan ammo while CUP is used on the Millitary Ammo.

Quote::
For example, the SAAMI maximum pressure for the 7.62 x 51 mm is given as 52000 CUP, or 62000 PSI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...f_pressure


Quote::
While I don't like sweeping statements, in 308/7.62 I have found that although the specifications have very similar maximum acceptable pressures, the military ammo is usually "hotter".

Commercial ammo tends to run a round 55,000 psi while I have seen some lots of military running around 60,000 psi. (Same pressure gun, observed in the same pressure testing project.)

Ammo specifications can be miss-leading. Military ammo is usually quoted using the CUP system whereas commercial ammo is quoted in psi. The actual pressure maximums are about the same, but the numbers are about 5,000 units apart. This can create the illusion that the military is lower pressure.
www.smellysmleshooters...essure.htm

This says the complete opposite, one of these days I'm going to have to find a CUP pressure testing gun and test them for myself. This confusion about pressures is annoying and untill I see the readings for myself I won't belive ether story. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

by looking at the lee reloading manual {i have the accurate one but the lee is more complete} it appears to me that only one obscure load would be unsafe ie over 62000 psi.

speaking to a old man whos had a 308 since they came out he tells me that in shooting commercial ammo in his old military 308 for like 20 years hes never ever had a problem and his gun still shoots 1 inch groups.

i think dimitri says it right the psi and cup scales are different and that difference actually makes a difference.
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

I'm starting to think people mix up CUP with PSI and just put what ever one they wish after the number. Shocked

This makes sense with the Military ammo running hotter, look at the 5.56mm which runs at 62,000PSI according to every source I've looked at. So to me anyways it makes sense that the 7.62x51mm NATO would be a hotter round because both rounds have roughtly the same specifications they need to work with in oversized, dirty chambers. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

The Pressures are not the only difference between the two rounds. The 308 is a shorter cartridge than the 7.62x51. There is enough difference that if you had a close to minimum chamber length in a 308 and chambered and fired a 7.62x51 you could easily have a critical and dangerous failure. The chamber in a 308 could pinch the nech of the military cartridge to the point where it would restric bullet travel and force pressures well over the 100000 PSI mark.
With commercial 308 ammo fired in the longer and larger chamber of a military firearm you are not likely to have near the pressures that the same load would produce in a tighter and shorter commercial 308 rifle. Even if the 308 commercial round generated more pressure in a test rifle it would generate less pressure in a longer, larger military chamber. There is a lot more room for the case to expand into without being enough to cause a failure of the case.
I would say that you could fire commercial ammo in the military rifle with far less catastrophic effects than you would get if you were to fire the military 7.62x51 ammo in a commecial rifle.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

Yup PaulS, That is for sure Military Type ammo in a commercial chamber is a no-no just by looking at the go/no-go/feild reject gauges, I wouldnt fire surplus in a commercial gun ever. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: reloading for a 308 ishapore enfield? Reply with quote

i love the net. i looked it up.

While CUP and LUP numbers were intended to be comparable to the crushing power of a given pressure in psi, the numbers are not equivalent! Since a longer duration, lower pressure pulse can crush the cylinder as much as a shorter duration, higher pressure pulse, CUP and LUP pressures frequently register lower than actual peak pressures (as measured by a transducer) by up to 20%. For example, the SAAMI maximum pressure for the 7.62 x 51 mm is given as 52000 CUP, or 62000 PSI; the .45-70, on the other extreme, is listed as 28000 in both CUP and PSI. SAAMI standards for a given cartridge may be expressed in CUP units, LUP units, or in units of pressure (PSI).


heres where i think people think commercial ammo in a nato gun is dangerous. they see the 52,000 CUP pressure and think the 62000 psi commercial load is to hot when in actuality they are the same.

a little fear and misunderstanding created the MYTH commercial in nato was dangerous.
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.