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Where to aim?
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

Dallan, that bowsite interactive is GOOD!!!!!
THANK YOU!!! thats what I was looking for.. INCREDIBLE!!

I scored 67 first time around Smile

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mc223
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

This post has produced an incredible amount of information.

but have we discussed where to aim. all of the info addresses where you want the bullet to go once it gets to the chosen target. But what about holdover and wind and uphill, downhill. where do you aim?

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

mc223,
as in my first post, I stated that I generally could stalk the animal till I am very close to them (always within point blank) .
So, the wind and elevation do not normally worries me. However, as I said before, I am willing to learn.

I heard that to shoot uphill, you should aim a little lower and downhill - a little higher. That, I assume is if the animal is "far" away (more than 200 meter?).
The problem is what is a little?

Do share your wisdom Smile

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mc223
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

That 'little" will depend on bullet weight, velocity and distance to the target.
That is exactly what I was suggesting in my previous post.
I hunted Elk in Colorado for several years and have taken shots at distances from 50 to 250 yards using a 300 win mag uphill and downhill. The 300 is a fairly flat shooting caliber,however to say that you must hold over 2 inches or 10 inches would be a falicy because each situation is unique. As are diffrent each rifle and caliber. So I really havent answered my own query. Experiance and or regular practice is the only way to be able to predict accuratly where to aim.

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george20042007
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

Most of my shooting is within 200 yards. I normally zero at 200 yards which eliminates any hold over/under at distances to 300 yards. I'm talking about calibers like .223, .243, 30-06, & now my new 300 Weatherby Mag. For some odd reason, I've never had a problem with windage.
Keep it coming...
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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

mc223 wrote:
This post has produced an incredible amount of information.

but have we discussed where to aim. all of the info addresses where you want the bullet to go once it gets to the chosen target. But what about holdover and wind and uphill, downhill. where do you aim?

G'Day mc223. You hit the nail squarely on the head when you said each and every situation is unique and that experience and practice are the key to learning.

Like George I keep my shots within the Point Blank Range so hold over is generally not a problem. I avoid running shots, unless its a rabbit and I'm using my shotgun, so lead again isn't a concern.

Cheers, Vince

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Daveyboy
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

Shooting up and down hill.

It is my understanding that either way, you aim low. Why?

Something to do with the effect of gravity and how it effects the bullet. If you are aiming up - draw a line of 45 degrees to see how it works - then there is the less effect per inch of travel as you are shooting up into it and therefore the effect is different to the obvious difference. Also, the velocity of the said bullet decreases at a lower rate as the same effect applies. As for bullet drop, well it follows that the pushing effect of gravity whilst not at a perpendicular to the initial trajectory of the bullet is altered and as the effect is lessened, so will be the bullet drop. Same happens when you are shooting down hill. So, the drop of the bullet... Sleep

Anyway, I do what Vince does and use PBR and a kill zone. No probs. Very Happy

D

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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

Here ya go guys....get your head around this one:

Exterior Ballistics

And this one:

Shooting Uphil and Downhill

If you are a Bowhunter:

Bow Hunting

That should give you enough light reading for a little while.

Cheers, Vince

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

Vince... That is what I was taught a long time ago. Just because we can run down hill and have to struggle up hill doesn't mean the bullet has to. Gravity effects every thing equally. Even over rough terrain. Gravity's effect does not change or have any effect unless you are ground bound. I was taught to shoot to POI up hill, down hill or on level ground. It is great to read that that ol' codger of yar was right.

Thank you.....

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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

G'Day Bushy. Its funny how the old buggers with all the life experience and knowledge are always right. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

You aim low for both uphill and downhill shots. This is because even thought you are shooting X amount of yards directly towards the critter, on a horizonal line its not as far so gravity has less time to act on it.

PointBlank v2.0 already has the angled shots calculations in and working, a nice addition IMO to v1.8 ... and yes before people ask, I'm still working on it... quite a bit lately too.


-DallanC
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

The only problem with the idea of aiming low is how low to aim. Hunting rifles are set to a particular range. Example: My .30-06 is set for 200 yards. That gives me a point blank range of 100 to 300 yards (+/-). Kill area of most animals is (depending on size) around 6" to 10". Aiming POI up hill or down hill is only aiming for the center of this "kill zone". Not really necessary to compensate for the ups and downs of the thing. 300 yards up hill, 300 yards down hill and 300 yards on level ground is still 300 yards. So far I have never hunted flat ground. Except for a few (and mostly at close range) most of my shots of 100 or more yards have been either up or down. All shots placed in the kill zone and no low compensation was allowed for. Not saying that you are wrong. Just that I have seen no hunter using a calculator in the mountains and it is not that easy to determine range without a range finder to figure how low to hold if you are limited for time (trees have a bad habit of getting in the way).

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george20042007
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

Point-of aim is what I do, zero in at 200 yards & everything else is elementary. I'm sure the scientists are right, but, bullet weight & style is what makes point-of-aim a fact, along with time spent at sighting in. Or you can buy an expensive scope that has all the extra sight graduations to help with the hold over/under issue, but, there goes the fun involved.
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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

where to aim ie POI is not what you must worry about shooting up or down hill. point of exit or POE is what you need to be concerned with.

if your shooting uphill you can hit dead center of the kill zone going in and completely miss the kill zone coming out by shooting high thru your target and by shooting low thru your target shooting downhill.

if you shoot low shooting downhill you can completely miss the kill zone because the bullet will stay low and exit the target even lower.

shooting low uphill will keep the bullet in the kill zone a little better because the bullet enters low and then travels higher intersecting the kill zone.

shoot a deer in the heart area shooting uphill you will probaly shoot over the actual heart if you aim POI

shoot a deer in the heart area downhill you will probally shoot under the heart if you aim at POI

you need to aim with the POE in mind when your shooting at deer sized game and larger.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Where to aim? Reply with quote

Forgot to mention. The "kill zone" is relative. It changes with the angle of the shot. It is, however, very important to know the anatomy of the animal you are about to shoot on the level, up or down hill. Thanks for reminding me Spacedone...

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