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Unsafe By Design
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Gil Martin
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
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Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:29 am    Post subject: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

I just started reading this great book by Jack Belk and have read 100 pages. Jack really knows his stuff and tells a compelling story. He was instrumental in exposing the defects in the original Remington Walker trigger. If you want to learn a lot about triggers of various firearms and enjoy a good read, go for it. All the best...
Gil

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slimjim
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Joined: May 16, 2009
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

Gil, the title of your thread is pretty strong. I no longer have my Rem 700, however, if there are any summaries you want to pass our way, I'll be interested.

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

slimjim,
I am still reading the book and it is a signed copy by Jack Belk. He covers many different firearms and states the facts as he sees them. He loves John Browning's designs especially the 1911 pistol and the Superposed shotgun and their safety features. Same with the Winchester Model 12. He is not a Glock fan and explains his concerns and comments on the number of accidental discharges where he has investigated and given testimony in court. He really covers the Remington Walker trigger and his assessment of it. I will say more later when I finish the book. All the best...
Gil

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MacD
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

Lotta safety issues out there. Wonder what gun was in the woman's handbag when her 2 year old reached in, pulled the trigger and shot her in a Walmart store. Kinda makes you wonder if you are safe anywhere?

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Gil Martin
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Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

MacD,
Anything can be unsafe and some things are safer than others by design. Of course, we need to be informed and use common sense. I have learned a great deal from reading this book. The author really likes the firearm designs of John Browning, the Model 12 and Model 70 Winchester triggers and the fire control systems of the 1898 Mauser and 1903 Springfield. it is a good read. All the best...
Gil

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MacD
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

Gil,
My point exactly. I can't buy a car without brakes but I have M&P 9 that has no safety of any kind other than the split trigger. How many other pistols are out there with a round in the chamber and relying on equally inadequate safeties? This is a public safety issue as I have no control over others choice of weapon or how they carry, loaded or unloaded. I bet there are still people carrying revolvers with no hammer block and all chambers filled. Not a pleasnt thought if you are standing in a some line-up and the woman in front or back of you drops her purse.

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dhc4ever
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Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

Mac, the only real safety is the nut behind the butt.
I never rely on safety's, follow proceedures on loading/unloading and keep the finger away from the trigger unless you're about to fire.
I have never seen the point of a safety in a split trigger, pull it it still goes bang, thats no safety at all, and judging from the number of police over here that have shot themselves in the leg/foot, those experiences would seem to confirm my view.
We dont have the problem with concealed carry over here, but you do raise some interesting issues.

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1895ss
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Joined: Jul 21, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

dhc4ever wrote:
Mac, the only real safety is the nut behind the butt.
I never rely on safety's, follow procedures on loading/unloading and keep the finger away from the trigger unless you're about to fire.
I have never seen the point of a safety

I agree... I have a 700 Remington that I purchased new in 1989 I have used it a lot. I don't believe the safety has been on more than maybe once or twice. When I'm hunting the chamber is usually empty until I am ready to shoot. At times I'll have one in the chamber but the bolt is open. That is the way my Dad taught me when I was a kid. He also taught me to never trust/rely on a safety. I use all my bolt guns the same way no matter who the manufacturer. The lessons he taught me back in the late 50's and early 60's, I taught my sons and teach my grandsons now.
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PaulS
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Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Unsafe By Design Reply with quote

1895,
You are exactly right about the only fail-safe safety is the operator paying attention to all the basics. As far as I'm concerned the safeties are there for naught. I haven't used a safety on my guns more than a couple of time in the last 40 years. If you keep your wits about you and practice safe gun handling there is no need for a safety. most any of those mechanical safeties can fail without warning and if you are relying on that safety you are lost.

Look at planes and the back-ups for back-ups and all the safety associated with them. They still crash once in a while so if you design something that is idiot proof there will shortly come along a more idiotic person to screw it up.

Isn't there a saying that goes something like this:
The difference between genius and stupidity is that stupidity has no bounds. ?

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