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Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Spacedone
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Joined: Nov 04, 2005
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Location: missouri

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

we are discussing yotes.

you do not actually have to kill yotes to make them die.

a injured yote will be killed by its pack mates.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

I like to match caliber and bullet to the job it has to do. If I am shooting 15 pound Chucks or 40 pound Coyotes I don't use a 358 with a 180 grain bullet. I use a smaller cartridge and much lighter bullet. I still want something that will reach out and slap them but seeing a Chuck blow up at 200 yards is not what I attempt. At the same time I don't use my BB gun on them either. I don't think I would use my BB gun if I had a formula that told me it was good enough to kill them with - I use common sense like everyone else.
I think there are those people who place too much importance on math when it comes to the shooting sports and most of the time a little thougt is all we need. The reason I worked on the formula as long as I did is that I got tired of discussions about how this super duper 20 caliber ballistic maximum magnum was capable of killing an elephant at 300 yards and how the 900 grain bullet at 2700 fps from an older cartridge was out of date for killing large game because this formula or that formula proved their point (on both sides). I wanted to find out the math behind what really affected an animal at impact and why. I have a formula that works for me - whether anyone else uses it or not is beside the point. I understand the effcts that are behind the math better just because it was part of the learning process.
I am in the process of working up a load (re-doing an old load using proven data with a new lot of powder) and it has been a real eye-opener for me thus far because the published maximums in my manuals varies from 17.2 to 19.5 and some data that I have seen goes as high as 19.6 and as low as 14 grains for this powder, bullet and cartridge combination - all this using a powder that the manufacturer says should not be reduced more than 3% from maximum listed charge. Through my discovery process I have found that some manuals are listing loads that are almost 14000 CUP below SAAMI maximums as their maximum loads.
Velocity is not the "be all and end all" of my loads - I want accuracy at a pressure level that is below the industry maximum. Using the powder manufacturer's data I would never find my accurate load as they list maximum at 1.3 grains below where I found my best accuracy and their listed maximum is 1.5 grains below the load that actually provides pressures close to SAAMI maximum. I am glad that three of my five manuals list the higher load and that a technician that was able to have open and honest communication with was able find the pressures generated in tests with the powder/bullet combination and share it with me. I have made notes as to the pressure levels for the manuals listing lower loads and the source of my information for future reference. I guess that could be seen as a bad habit - digging in and researching until I find facts to answer my questions.
George20042007 - I have used my 3006 on coyote and it is effective with a light bullet and big holes in the hide. I am not going to do that again - I like to be able to use my pelts and it is far better to take the animal down with a smaller calibe that is suited to killing the animal without the total distruction of all the parts. That is why we have smaller calibers. As I said earlier - common sense is all you need.

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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

no we have smaller and larger calibers so big gun manufaturers make more profit.

if your after pelts i suggest you use traps which dont effect the pelts at all.

yotes are easy caught and a hammer on top the head doesnt even hurt head skins.

1000 ft pounds of force will kill any animal on the planet so any gun that will reach this energy level at the range your shooting is fine for the animal your killing be it elephants or chipmonks. a bullet that shoots flat out to 1000 yards is not any more a killer than a bullet that drops 4 feet at 1000 yards as long as you can hit the kill zone with the required force at 1000 yards. without practice no one can hit anything with the worst gun or the best gun in the world. with practice anyone can hit anything with the best gun or the worst gun in the world.

i see it as a give or take.

i want the most force at the required range with the least amount of cost and recoil. ie if my 100 dollar enfield will kill a elk at 300 yards with 3 quarters of the recoil and half the bullet cost of a 300 win mag then i will use the enfiled every single time.

if im shooting paper ill use the same enfield instead of a 223 for the simple reason i feel the 223 is a wounder not a killer {the us army told me this as fact 30 years ago. 223 is designed to injure humans and not kill game} and i am a hunter and could care less if my gun shoots 1 inch groups and yours shoots half inch groups.

guns are tools not toys and more people should think of them this way. {no insult intended}

im fairly new to reloading but in the last year ive found that it isnt the fastest heavyest bullet or powder load thasts important. its the load YOU personally are most comfortable with in the gun your shooting.

all listed loads in reloading manuals are starting points not facts. my no 4 longbranch consistantly chronos out 200 fps faster than any listed load lists while my no 1 lithgow made the same year consistantly shoots 100 fps slower than any listed load lists. both have the same amount of percieved recoil and both shoot consistant 1 inch groups at 100 yards but have a 300 fps velocity difference.

yes everyone wants to improve and yes everyone wants the best money can buy but money cant buy practice skills and thats whats most important.
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george20042007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

Well PaulS...I used my 30-06 on coyotes when they made the 55 grn Accelerator round available. Worst round I ever fired. No accuracy at all. It also caused feeding problems in my Browning auto Safari. I had to use it like a single shot with those Accelerators. I couldn't zero in at 100 yrds. Gave up on them. I did put together a nice handload using a 110 grn bullet that produced good results when zeroed in at 200 yrds. Never used it to hunt with though because I have some great .223 & .243 guns with loads that excite the heck out of me.
Keep it coming...
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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

I had good luck with a rifle I built my self, Bushmaster upper with a Savage heavy fluted barrel (in 223 rem of course), the barrel was 1-12 twist and shot 45 gr speer flat base hollow points very very well, I like the semiauto for coyotes and fox(quick second shot). thats just my choice.
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SHOOTER458
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Joined: Nov 05, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

I like a 300RUM with a Sierra 168gr Matchking. H1000 powder and Fed.215 primers. I zero at 500 yds.
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

SHOOTER458 wrote:
I like a 300RUM with a Sierra 168gr Matchking. H1000 powder and Fed.215 primers. I zero at 500 yds.


"Zero at 500 yards" Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked You must be 12" to 18" high at 100 yrds .............. what's with that..........??????? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked How do you shoot anything closer ....... Shocked 8O wtf Shocked You have a PBR of about 24" or more .............. WHY ?????????? Confused Confused Confused Shocked

Just wondering ................ Very Happy

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'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way.


Last edited by 1895ss on Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: Long range coyote loads?? 400+yards Reply with quote

Spacedone wrote:
we are discussing yotes.

you do not actually have to kill yotes to make them die.

a injured yote will be killed by its pack mates.

Spacedome that sounds like a hunter, NOT ! ........ and real sporting! Confused Thumbs Down

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A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way.
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