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S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART"
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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

These are reported to be pictures of new S&W 65-7
revolvers. North Carolina Dept of Corrections has
suspended qualifications until futher notice. S&W has
started using sleeved barrels as a cost cutting
measure. When firing it was noticed that the barrel
had left the frame and was on the ground a short
distance away. Notice the one where there are four
burn rings in front of the chambers. It was said that
this one let go on the fourth shot of the first
cylinder load.
wtf Shocked Shocked

Cheers, Vince



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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

What's new Rolling Eyes
But seriously.....The S&W of yesterday is NOT the S&W of today! I will not buy another S&W (unless it's used) over a new Ruger or Taurus for that matter and i do much more preferre a Ruger and Taurus now anyway.


Just

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

We should all be grateful they have integral locks!
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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

ROFL

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Where are these pictures from? Has anyone made an attempt to verify that this is real? I mean, I am not a S&W fan but this is hard even for ME to believe.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Where are these pictures from? Has anyone made an attempt to verify that this is real? I mean, I am not a S&W fan but this is hard even for ME to believe.

The message I got said quote "This was on the Glock Talk Forum a few days ago." unquote

Apart from that it is anyone's guess where it originated.

Vince

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Sad wtf As a Correctional Supervisor in the State of North Carolina I assure you that this is TRUE! Training except for Basic Training and PERT (Prison Emergency Response Teams) has been suspended until further notice. Currently the Department is negotiating with S&W for the replacement of what I do not know the ammount of revolvers. There is also a proposal to change over to a semi auto in the wind at this time. Cool Cool Cool IT"S GLOCK TIME!!!! Cool Cool Cool I HOPE!!!! Cool Cool Cool Cool
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kbis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

That is spooky. I think I will stick with my Rugers and Colts.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Dont know how true that is but this is what I found out based on what Vince posted:

Asheboro, Listed in the pictures names is a town in North Carolina:

www.ci.asheboro.nc.us/

There is also a shooting range in that town:

Quote::
Randolph Shooter's Connection Inc., 1128 N. Fayetteville St., Asheboro, NC 27203.
Phone: 336-626-0006
Facilities include: Indoor Pistol (75 yd), Indoor Rifle (75 yd), Archery, Airgun
Range Access: Public

Its also posted on a new source:

www.wfmy.com/news/loca...ryid=59799

Quote::
Raleigh, NC -- None of the guns have failed in the line of duty. But in testing, about one in four revolvers didn't fire when the trigger was pulled. In some cases, the barrel of some models broke off when the gun was fired.

So far, the state Correction Department has asked the Massachusetts-based gun maker only to replace five-hundred guns bought in 2004.

But officials could wind up asking Smith & Wesson to provide replacements for all five-thousand of the department's revolvers.

It would cost the state more than one-point-five million dollars to replace all of the revolvers. And that doesn't include the cost of buying new ammunition, holsters and other accessories, plus retraining officers to use a new model of gun.

Forgot about: www.myrtlebeachonline....132356.htm

Quote::
Associated Press

RALEIGH, N.C. - Faced with problems ranging from misfires to barrels breaking off, the state has asked gun maker Smith & Wesson to replace hundreds of sidearms carried by probation and corrections officers.

None of the revolvers have failed in the line of duty, and for now, the department is keeping the guns in service. But in testing, about one in four revolvers didn't fire when the trigger was pulled. In some cases, the barrel of some models broke off when the gun was fired.

"In one sense it's funny," said Chief Deputy Correction Secretary Dan Stieneke. "In another, it's alarming."

So far, the state Correction Department has asked the Massachusetts-based gun maker to replace only 500 Model 64 revolvers bought in 2004, though there have also been problems with two other models. But officials could wind up asking Smith & Wesson to provide replacements for all 5,000 of the department's revolvers.

At a meeting last month at a shooting range in Smithfield, Smith & Wesson representative got a live demonstration of the problems. During test firing of about three dozen revolvers, four misfired, meaning nothing happened when the trigger was pulled. The barrel also broke off a different model when it was fired, something that has happened 14 times in practice firings since 2003.

"On the one hand, statistically (the revolvers' performance) is not bad, but it's just the safety issue," Stieneke said. "That kind of failure gets people's attention."

Officials at Springfield, Mass.-based Smith & Wesson, one of the world's largest gun makers, did not return repeated calls seeking comment.

For at least two decades, state prison officials have used Smith & Wesson revolvers. They are assigned to probation officers and correction officers who work outside of prison walls, patrolling perimeters and escorting inmates. The guns are not carried by officers who work inside prisons, where there is too great a risk of inmates getting a gun.

The guns cost about $320 each, meaning it would cost the state more than $1.5 million to replace them all. That doesn't include the cost of buying new ammunition, holsters and other accessories, plus retraining officers to use a new model of gun.

"We're at a point where if we have to make a quick switch, it's going to cost millions of dollars, and it's going to take a lot of training and effort to get back up to speed," Stieneke said.

Many law enforcement agencies have moved away from revolvers in recent years, switching to semiautomatic pistols, something Stieneke is considering.


I'd imagine its true Shocked

Dimitri

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A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
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kbis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Do you suppose the reason that they have not had any failures "in the line of duty" is that correction officers seldom use their weapons, at least it's that way here in Texas.
In a life and death situation could you still shoot the gun without the barrel?
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Kbis,

I belive like what you said that Correction officers dont shoot there guns while on duty, I dont hear about many times crimials are killed by gaurds in prision, do you ?? Smile

Well the chamber is the cylinder, so I'd imagine so, well without any real velocity. Since without a barrel the gas should all just expand around the cylinder and not push it much right ?? Doesnt have enough time to build up speed without a barrel. Smile Thats my take on it dont know if I'm right Smile

Dimitri

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Last edited by Dimitri on Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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kbis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Dimitri- What I was saying is that they DO NOT use their weapons very often.

This would make a great add for "J/B Weld" Very Happy
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Kbis,

I edited it to make more sense Wink I hope Smile

Dimitri

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RPM1031
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

Saw this the other day on THR forum.


Originally Posted by News Observer
Published: Mar 18, 2006 12:30 AM
Modified: Mar 18, 2006 03:33 AM



State wants faulty guns replaced
Correction officers are experiencing serious problems with several Smith & Wesson models

Dan Kane, Staff Writer
State prison officials want gunmaker Smith & Wesson to replace hundreds of revolvers after dozens failed to shoot and the barrels broke off of others upon firing in training exercises.
The company has witnessed the problems firsthand. Last month, three company representatives met with state prison officials at a shooting range near Smithfield to test about three dozen revolvers.

Four of the revolvers didn't fire when a state weapons instructor pulled the trigger. The cylinder that holds the ammunition jammed on two revolvers. Then, the barrel broke off as the instructor fired a different model with a longer barrel, just as 14 others had in practice shoots dating back to 2003.

"In one sense it's funny," said Chief Deputy Correction Secretary Dan Stieneke. "In another, it's alarming."

In previous tests of revolvers purchased in 2004, roughly one in four misfired. They are .38 caliber Model 64s, which have 3-inch barrels. The .357 caliber Model 65s had the problem with barrel breaks. Test fires of a third revolver, the slightly smaller Model 60, resulted in cracked or sheared barrels in four cases.

No weapons have failed in the line of duty. Stieneke said the guns will remain in service while the department tries to resolve the problems, but annual in-service training will cease until a solution is found. New hires will receive weapons training because there are enough reliable revolvers to train them.

"On the one hand, statistically [the revolvers' performance] is not bad, but it's just the safety issue," Stieneke said. "That kind of failure gets people's attention."

The weapons are assigned to probation officers who keep track of probationers with more dangerous criminal histories, and to correction officers who patrol prison perimeters and escort inmates outside the facilities. (Those correction officers often carry rifles and shotguns as well.)

Correction officers inside prisons do not carry guns because there is a much greater risk that they could fall into inmates' hands. They carry pepper spray and batons.

Correction officials have asked the company to replace the 500 Model 64s purchased in 2004. They might extend that request to replace all of the department's 5,000 revolvers.

If Smith & Wesson does not replace the guns, the department might file a lawsuit or turn to taxpayers for help. Replacing the guns, which cost about $320 each, would come to more than $1.5 million. The department also would have to replace ammunition, holsters and other accessories, and retrain its officers to use the replacement weapons.

"We're at a point where if we have to make a quick switch, it's going to cost millions of dollars, and it's going to take a lot of training and effort to get back up to speed," Stieneke said.

Smith & Wesson officials did not return repeated phone calls for comment. Based in Springfield, Mass., Smith & Wesson is one of the nation's largest gunmakers.

The company's guns have drawn criticism from other law enforcement agencies. In 2001, New Jersey canceled a purchase of about 3,200 semi-automatic pistols from Smith & Wesson for its state police because of high malfunction rates.

North Carolina prison officials have been using Smith & Wesson revolvers for at least 20 years, even as many other law enforcement agencies have switched to higher-powered, semi-automatic handguns that carry more rounds.

Stieneke said that no one noticed a troublesome trend with the revolvers until late 2004, when trainers began seeing misfires with the new batch of Model 64s. A misfire is when the trigger is pulled and nothing happens.

In March and April 2005, the trainers tested all 500 of the new batch of handguns at shooting ranges across the state. They reported misfire rates of between 11 percent and 43 percent.

In the meantime, another problem emerged: barrels dropping or flying off the Model 65s during firing. The department surveyed trainers across the state and counted up 14 cases of barrel failure in the past three years.

Both problems led to the visit by Smith & Wesson on Feb. 21.

Stieneke said the revolvers are no longer a popular item and that might be contributing to their unreliability. For example, the department has had to special order the Model 65s in recent years.

That, along with the weapon failures, has Stieneke thinking it is time to follow the rest of the law enforcement community and switch to semi-automatics.

Staff writer Dan Kane can be reached at 829-4861 or dkane @ newsobserver.com.

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: S & W REVOLVERS ALLEGEDLY "COMING APART" Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Where are these pictures from? Has anyone made an attempt to verify that this is real? I mean, I am not a S&W fan but this is hard even for ME to believe.

Maybe because you are not a S&W fan that's why you don't know? And i'm going to go slightly into detail.........
For many, many years i have been a S&W fan up until the whole Clinton sell out thing happened.....Although, and while some of their arms are up to par, i have had the unfortunate delight to have seen these failures and many more in my life time.

Still however, S&W continues to make pistols upon which reliability is a big issue......For the most part, they haven't gotten out of that state of mind to avoid law suits!

Now though, S&W "expects" you to buy their products and be able to shoot it in a defensive situation with a 14 pound (and more often that not heavier) trigger wtf (Performance Center models are more acceptable and not many people have issues other than the price). I had 5 great S&W revolvers which out of those (stupid for selling on my part) i have one defense revolver left that i bought new........With a sickening 16+ pound trigger.

Case and point: S&W "used" to have one of the finest triggers without the work of a gunsmith. That doesn't mean people (like me) didn't do trigger jobs to fine tune the arm to their tastes.

When i first became aware of these heavy triggers (revolvers and pistols) is when a lady friend was displeased and not able to reliably shoot her S&W LS in 38 Special. She had explained she has a very hard time pulling the trigger and having symptoms of a reverse rotating cylinder. I had inspected it for her that day and found out the reason was a 15.2 pound trigger.....ON A LADIES DEFENSE WEAPON???? wtf And the shop she bought it from said they will send it in to S&W for a trigger job and other stuff, which i can't remember the exact price but i know it was for $75 to $100?

So i think it was 10 bucks later for springs, with a crisp and clean 6 pound trigger i solved all her problems.

Now i know this isn't a "barrel" related scenario, however, it does show what you can expect these days. My own expirences from owning was....
Semi autos include: Barrel buldging, excessive stove pipes, polymer decomposition, frame seperation, and while out with my friend that owned a 40VE, the slide blew off the frame.
Revolver:Barrel twisting, barrel buldging, barrel seperation, barrel sleeve loosening, cylinder lock up (i had one of the first recorded cases of that with the S&W 500), main and trigger spring failure, and i think that's it (or mostly all i can remember)?

Understandably, this happens with every manufacturer...... However, i don't think i'm the only one in the past 20 years of owning many S&W revolvers that this has happened to Confused .

Just Wink

_________________
Why no......I'm really not an outdoorsmsn at all. But i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!
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