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Police Shooting
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Police Shooting Reply with quote

what hysteria drives a policeman to shoot non-agressive people or open up with so much excessive force that they turn cars, houses, and boats into swiss cheese? I've had an asociate son's shot by police in a wholesale store because someone saw his concealed handgun. He was not aggressive nor his weapon drawn. Last week, police shot an unarmed man standing in the street flat footed with his arms at his side. Now this.

www.foxnews.com/us/201...latestnews

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

We were discussing that story at work tonight. As usual there aren’t enough details to make a realistic determination of what really happened. I do think younger cops (products of the "public school system") are overly sensitized, and fearful, of guns. I’ve seen that firsthand. I know and understand that they have to be VERY careful in any situation where someone they don’t know is armed. However, I think there is a tendency to overreact. Even without the presence of a gun young cops seem to be shooting awfully quickly. Just this week two local cops shot up two men in a car. Again, there are few details but the only people who shot were the cops.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

damned if they do..damned if they dont.
If you had read the police saw a young man with what they "thought" was a replica AK so drove past without stopping..the young man then went on to shoot teachers and fellow students at his school.........
I guess it was a case of "OH FARRRK FACTOR syndrome" on the part of the boy..saw cops heard them tell him to drop it and panicked....
why the heck do people buy kids toys that look so realistic????? this has been a disaster waiting to happen for a long time now and I believe its not the first time either. maybe the old toy gun makers new what they were doing making them out of red or yellow plastic?
now what if the young fella had fake explosives strapped to his waist and a remote controller from his car set in his hand???? would it be an over reaction if he didnt drop it????

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Last edited by Elvis on Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

In the USA toys and replicas come with an orange muzzle. If that was in place then someone is going to be in deep doo-doo.

If it had been removed then it is up for questioning the reasons behind both the removal and the shooting.

It's starting to sound like the media is trying to ban cops from having guns and that is a BAD bad idea.

In any event this is a tragedy that could be prevented but it is going to take tolerance of all concerned.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

Hogwash!! Guess I'll have to stop wearing my Hopalong Cassidy double rig with Colt SAA replicas.

Reminds me of the 80 year old woman that came out on her front porch to see what all the racket was about. She was carrying her broom (the old fashion kind) and was shot 16 times. Whaddya got to do? Put an orange cap on the broom [muzzle]? Mad

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Tremblay
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

I have 20 + years of law enforcement with the Federal protection service and local sheriff dept. If the individual does not comply to commands and presents a threating manner with any thing that appears to be a weapon then it gets exciting. Hesitation on the police side is the reason so many cops are killed. I always said that I would rather be judged by 12 than be carried by 6, and planed on eating supper with my family that night.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

Tremblay, thank you for your service. May you always be safe.

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Tremblay
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

Thanks Slim

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radar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

24 years as a Cop and although we don't carry all the time I'm with Tremblay "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6".
I make a point of making sure me and my staff go home at the end of each shift!

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

Much respect to those that serve as police, soldier or other peace keepers.
Your pay would never could be high enough to pay for your life.

Keep safe for your and your family sake.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

Never been a LEO, but after many many years as a soldier, and learning to comply with Rules of Engagement and Orders For Opening Fire I can sympathise with both sides here. A child is a child and will act like a child, not an adult. However, a LEO encountering what, certainly on face value, appears to be a life threatening situation can only rely on his training and instincts. There is however one other thing that should be applied, and that is common sense. An adult confronting a child should err on the side of reason until such time as there is a need to revert to more "aggressive" actions.

I think each and every one of us played cowboys and Indians, or soldiers, or other such games as children and part of these games were realistic (within reason) toys or "tools of trade". The LEO concerned here should have remembered this and approached the situation in a less aggressive manner and treated the young fellow as a child with toys...until, or if, it was shown to be something different or sinister.

What does this mean...the LEO made a mistake, a terrible lethal mistake for which he must live with and also face the consequences. Unfortunately I believe that any investigation will focus on official training and procedures rather than seeing the situation for what was...an unfortunate mistake on the part of the LEO...a mistake that cost a child his life needlessly, and for this there must be consequences.

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Last edited by Vince on Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

the consequences will be nightmares for the coppers concerned...no punishment will hit them harder than what will play out in their minds as it is.
As my good mate from up north would say "a shit sandwich no matter which way you cut it"

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

I am in no way qualified to make a judgement here. I wasn't there, didn't witness what went on, so I have no idea what went through that cops mind.

It is tragic at the very least and whether his actions were justifiable in that moment or not he will have to live with the results. If that doesn't bother him then he needs a different career.

My prayers are with the family first but also the officer and his family.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

Yes, lots of prayers for the family. It seems odd that the two policeman felt that seven bullets were required to stop the teen. Or that they need to handcuff him before doing CPR.

The police officer that shot the man standing flat footed in the street with his arms at his side last week in Dallas, was fired and arrested.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Police Shooting Reply with quote

I saw on the news last night a comparison of a real rifle and the "toy". They made it sound as though it was the actual toy involved. Guess what? No orange muzzle, just like the one in the news article photo. It was slightly shorter than the real one, but I'm not going to ask a cop to measure the "weapon" before responding.

Seven bullets might be a bit excessive, but most agencies that I am familiar with still teach "triple taps" for any situation. If that is their agency's protocol and each fired and hit, that only leaves one extra. Besides, according to the article someone "heard seven shots", at least at this time I'm not aware that has been verified. I'm certainly not saying that there aren't situations of abuse and "cowboy cop" syndrome, but I wasn't there to have to make that split-second decision about whether to fire or not.

The article also says "The boy fell to the ground on top of the rifle, according to O'Leary. He said the deputies ordered him to move away before approaching him and putting him in handcuffs." Until the deputies secured that area and determined what the "weapon" was, it is their responsibility to protect themselves and the rest of the public...and did you note that he also had another toy handgun in his waistband?

A neighbor wisely said ""I'm sure you can tell he's a 13-year-old boy," Abrey Martin told KGO-TV. "He's not some maniac." REALLY? Ever hear of Columbine or Sandyhook, or any one of a dozen recent school shootings committed by "kids"?

Far too cloudy to make any snap judgments until all the facts are in.

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