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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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Donut Slayer Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2007 Posts: 594 Location: Pensacola, Florida
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radar Super Member
Joined: Oct 01, 2008 Posts: 1109 Location: North Island New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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If I might be so bold to put my 10c worth on the table.
As a level 1 responder in the NZ police I get some form of defensive tactic training every 4 months that could be live firing (glock or M4) interactive computer shooting, taser shots plus baton and empty hand tactics, these can all be in the one day depending on circumstances. Last week we trained with weapons doing room clearance for active shooters-no rounds just tactical deployment. Yes a lot of the problem is trigger time and not enough of it, but like most of you I do more shooting of my own. Yes it does come down to cost, remember taking me off the street for 8-10 hrs for training has a financial cost.
I can give my perspective as I've come within a few milliseconds of firing on more than 1 occasion. The adrenalin is pumping, everything narrows down and your bum is doing a massive twitch exercise, no matter what, I was going home, if it had taken 5 shots to incapacitate so be it. And I'm a hunter so I can control the way my body physiologically reacts. For most of the boys in blue this isn't the case. Easiest way to test is to make them sprint 100m then try to put rounds onto a target at 20 m, unless you've trained about 60% of your rounds won't even hit the paper.
There's also a lot of jokes about police shooting whilst some are bloody hilarious they didn't become jokes without some element of truth behind them. I could go on but that's my take on it.
_________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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Thanks for your insight, radar.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9253 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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good man Radar I was hoping you would chime in.
give em more training and to hell with the cost, pity the bean counters dont see it that way though.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:01 am Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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In the situation in Boston with suspect No. 2, there was plenty of time to think that situation through. It wasn't necessary to open up on with a "hail" of gunfire when a single wounded suspect was surrounded by 4000 LEOs. Plus I would expect the LEOs in this situation where the most well trained and prepared. They were dressed in Army battle gear and bullet protection.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6397 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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I think I got to join in this here discussion.
Although I share slimjim's sentiment to a point, I also can see it from the other side.
I thought it is not right to blame the police for their lack of training, lack of man power, or lack of accuracy when firing a gun.
I believe that the one to blame are the politician that meddle with the funds for essential services such as the police.
Police are human, they can die and get injured when bullets are coming towards them.
There are no paycheck large enough IMHO, to play hero and charge in the path of incoming bullets to ensure that my one shot get in the right place.
If one of my bullet probably going to hit my target, then plenty of them would increase my chance.
So what if they made a few holes on other objects? The aim is to go home to the family, kiss the wife, eat steak, drink beer and help the kids with homework.
Not to be some kind of action hero, or win the accolade of the public for being the most accurate shot.
My cheers to those that serve in the police.
Mates, you deserve no less accolade than the soldiers that serve to fight evil overseas.
In fact your jobs are much more difficult, for the enemies are protected by law of your own.
_________________ A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
Do - Not try!
gelandangan.weebly.com/ |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9253 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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hear hear
couldnt agree more.
if they had lobbed a stun granade into the boat and popped out all the neighbours windows it wouldnt be overkill.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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If I posted my opinion of what the officers did, or did not do wrong during the boat take down, Dallan would probably ban me.
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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I'm also with D and chambered on this, here is a post from former rep Ron Paul on the boston shutdown. lewrockwell.com/paul/paul858.html
_________________ Regards
Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds. |
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English Mike Super Member
Joined: Jan 08, 2007 Posts: 1709 Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: How are law enforcement trained? |
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gelandangan wrote: |
I thought it is not right to blame the police for their lack of training, lack of man power, or lack of accuracy when firing a gun.
I believe that the one to blame are the politician that meddle with the funds for essential services such as the police.
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Exactly.
The politicians who decide training isn't worth the $ are largely to blame for poor performance when shooting becomes the only option.
I'd want to be shooting at least 200 rounds a month to keep my handgun skills anywhere near what I consider acceptable.
Due to my circumstances (living in the UK) this doesn't happen & I get to practice a couple of times a year, just like many LEO.
I'll tell you this: my proficiency with the first couple of magazines absolutely SUCKS.
That's what a LEO has to face when he is called on to shoot; mostly he'll be no damn' good unless he practices in his own time, on his own dime.
It's only after 50 or 60 rounds down range that I even begin to shoot in anything like a competent manner & double that before the muscle memory comes back.
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