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cast 30-30 boolets
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

Aloy, I am not arguing just stating my findings.
I have been wrong many times, so I am happy to learn more.

IMO with the 165gn boolit the situation would be different,
the combustion would be a tad more even due to the weight of the boolit that it need to overcome before moving away from the chamber.

It is estimated that 95% of the powder would burn out within 8.5 inch from the breech, with max pressure happening within 1.5 inch from the chamber (where the barrel is usually the thickest) and right away tapering down cutting very little possibility for SEE...

OTOH with the lighter 100gn boolits, max pressure is at 2 inch away from the end of chamber and sort of elongated all the way to about 5 inch, and the powder never reach 95% burn, thus allowing for possibility of detonation (SEE) further down the barrel where it is weakest.

This fact is the reason why I always look for the heaviest boolits for my subsonis loads.. beside the fact that they carry more energy that is..

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

Geland, have also a look at those data from Omini and look what kind of powders they are using.

I don't know if you're also familiar with the PCL-powders, but when loading lead bullets for a rifle, I mainly use 3 different powders: PCL504, PCL512 and N110 (and occasionally that (expensive) Trail Boss).
According your point of view, I should use the PCL504 more often because you consider it safer. And I was prefering the PCL512 and the N110 because I got the feeling it was safer to use these slower powders...

and I always feel the need to learn something extra, it keeps me younger Smile
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
the stupid thing is that Vihtavuori is going to stop selling their reloading powders... so maybe in the near future H&N will give other recepies?

Shocked Shocked Wow this is news to me, I have been using VV N110 in the 357 and 44 mag and it is one of the cleanest burning and accurate powders available to us handloaders. Granted the price of VV went up over the years but now seeing they will stop selling their reloading powders I best buy all I can right now. Sad

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
PCL504, PCL512 and N110 (and occasionally that (expensive) Trail Boss).

Ok lets try them.

With the same load density of say 50% AND Lead Boolit of 100gn ON a 30-30 cartridge.

PCL504 would burn at about 44kpsi and fully burned out within 2 inch from the breech end in a total time of about 400 microsecond (0.0004 second), then tapering sharply down. (DANGEROUSLY HIGH PRESSURE)

PCL512 would burn at about 17kpsi, never fully burnt out but burned out 95% within 15,5 inch from breech end.
The pressure is sloping gently, at 8 inch it is still at 10kpsi.

N110 11kpsi, never even burnt out 95% and the pressure is almost even all along the barrel.


From the top 3, it is better off in term of efficiency and accuracy by using PCL512, it gives even pressure but less as the projectile moves away from the reinforced area of the barrel.
The powder burned to 95% so there is not too much waste nor have high chance of SEE.

Now, bear in mind that the loads are at 50% LD, thus having plenty of empty spaces in the cartridge.
NONE of these loads can be considered optimal, so the conclusion are that none of the powder are best suited for the cartridge.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

This got me thinking so I did some Googling. This is interesting and pertains.

www.gmdr.com/lever/pistolpowi.htm

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
Aloysius wrote:
the stupid thing is that Vihtavuori is going to stop selling their reloading powders... so maybe in the near future H&N will give other recepies?

Shocked Shocked Wow this is news to me, I have been using VV N110 in the 357 and 44 mag and it is one of the cleanest burning and accurate powders available to us handloaders. Granted the price of VV went up over the years but now seeing they will stop selling their reloading powders I best buy all I can right now. Sad

I've read somewhere that the new owners would stop selling VV-powders in 2014. And when there's smoke, there's also a fire most of the times...
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

Can you get Hodgdon H110 or the same powder by Winchester, WW 296? I think ADI sells the same powder under a different label name too.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

I have here H110, no problem. But look at the remarks of Geland according these rather slow pistolpowders used with rather light bullets...
and I don't know about his teeth, but Geland sure seems to have a golden head and golden hands...
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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

ADI make a brilliant pistol magnum powder called AR2205, marketed by Hogdon as H4227. Another ADI powder I would consider is AR2207, marketed by Hogdon as H4198.

I use ADI AR2208 (Varget) for my 30.30 Win, but I gas-check my cast boolits.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets Reply with quote

Interesting Vince, I have 4lbs (4 single one lb containers) of Imr 4227 thats says it was made in Australia. I also brought 2lbs of Imr 4227 this year that was made in Canada. I'm assuming the stuff made in Australia is H4227 (AR2205) and the stuff made in Canada is the original Imr 4227.

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