HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: CGSEAL
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12393

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 147
BOT: 5
Total: 153
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: Bushmaster > Forums
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Photo Albums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: News
19: Forums
20: Home
21: Photo Albums
22: Forums
23: Statistics
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Home
29: News
30: Forums
31: Photo Albums
32: Forums
33: News
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Photo Albums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: News
43: Forums
44: Photo Albums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Photo Albums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Photo Albums
55: Photo Albums
56: Photo Albums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Photo Albums
64: Photo Albums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Photo Albums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Photo Albums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Photo Albums
78: Photo Albums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Photo Albums
82: Forums
83: Home
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Your Account
91: Photo Albums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Photo Albums
98: Photo Albums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Your Account
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Your Account
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Photo Albums
119: News
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Photo Albums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Photo Albums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: News
142: Forums
143: Your Account
144: Forums
145: Home
146: Home
147: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Photo Albums
03: Forums
04: Your Account
05: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 312
 Pictures: 2417
  · Views: 263235
  · Votes: 1279
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

Neck Tension
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10200
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

That one, Omni, might be that the resized cases that were set aside for a monthor two have [due to elasticity] slowly returned to near original dimensions.

Popcorn

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...


Last edited by Bushmaster on Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2001
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

I got also the impression that brass becomes stiffer and harder by aging. For my Hornet I was presented very old Winchester amno and normally the Winchester 45 grs HP factory round works very good in my Anschütz. But this old Winchester rounds are no good for hunting because often the cases get cracks in the neck (which make that the holes on my target appear about 2" lower than normal at 100m). And even it's a once fired case, it's no good for reloading, because it has already a split neck.
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2985
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

That is definitely true Aloysius, I've had brass from 40 to 60 years ago that were re sized and some that were not, doesn't matter, all cases cracked after firing! The only way around this is to anneal the neck again, and even then annealing very old cases don't always turn out good.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
So it appears to me, if you load your components immediately after resizing, you will have less neck tension. And if you load cases that have been already resized sitting for a month or so, you will have more neck tension.

OV1, I'll have to think about this some more and figure out how to consider it. The new Nosler Brass I was using was, in fact, probably 10 years old, just never opened. I did reload them about 30 minutes after running them through the sizing die.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
That one, Omni, might be that the resized cases that were set aside for a monthor two have [due to elasticity] slowly returned to near original dimensions.

Ok, Bushy. Every case I have resize has come out of the die with a smaller neck than when it went in. Thus, if what you say is the situation, the neck diameter would be bigger. How does neck tension increase if the case neck has a larger diameter?

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3437
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

So how did this story end ???

My brass is always tumbled and then I use a brush on the inside of the neck.
When I changed over to a Redding S-die I had the same issue with neck tension. I went with a tighter bushing and started using the expander button.
In my opinion neck thickness .003-.005 are fine for our applications.
Completely uniforming necks for a standard chamber will often lead to other issues.
Be sure to use a ball micrometer when measuring neck thickness. It's the only way to get an accurate reading.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

I did come up with a way to measure the force. It was significantly different going into a new case (like butter in and out) and lever-slamming to pull the bullets out of a sized case that had been once-fired: night and day. there was no way that I was going to be able to use a spring hanging scale to measure the extraction force. I make sure I keep my new cases separate and use fired cases to hunt with.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

I found a force scale that would work with my RCBS Single Stag Press. I had already changed my .270 Win neck resizing button from .300 to .302 to decrease tension. I no longer have to slam the handle to pull a bullet.

Today, I used 150gr VLDs and 140gr Barnes TSX and did a bullet pull test. I only used a couple of cases so this is not a large sample but it demonstrates there is a significant difference. I used Winchester brass and all cases, fired or not, when through the neck sizing button. Here what I found.

New Brass
31 pounds - 150gr VLD
52 pounds - 140gr TSX

Fired Brass
49 pounds - 150gr VLD
65 pounds - 140gr TSX

You can see that the grooves in the TSX increase neck tension. Now imagine how much higher the tension would have been with a .300" bushing with the TSX.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
shahidsaif
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

you are sent the nice post now.






slimjim wrote:
I found a force scale that would work with my RCBS Single Stag Press. I had already changed my .270 Win neck resizing button from .300 to .302 to decrease tension. I no longer have to slam the handle to pull a bullet.

Today, I used 150gr VLDs and 140gr Barnes TSX and did a bullet pull test. I only used a couple of cases so this is not a large sample but it demonstrates there is a significant difference. I used Winchester brass and all cases, fired or not, when through the neck sizing button. Here what I found.

New Brass
31 pounds - 150gr VLD
52 pounds - 140gr TSX

Fired Brass
49 pounds - 150gr VLD
65 pounds - 140gr TSX

You can see that the grooves in the TSX increase neck tension. Now imagine how much higher the tension would have been with a .300" bushing with the TSX.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 6776
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

?? hmmmmm????

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3437
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
?? hmmmmm????

Yea !!! wtf Do we offer up a beer out of the cooler or an interpreter ???

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 6776
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

my thoughts eggzachary.....

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 12852
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

Wait and see maybe...might be a spammer testing the water...

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6868
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

I provide this valuable information and all you gun nuts can talk about is the spammer!?!?

Chambered might as well be lost again and Elvis can eat feathers!

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 12852
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Neck Tension Reply with quote

Haha Haha Haha Haha

Be interested to see pics of the force scale mate, and how you set it up. I have always relied upon the standard neck sizer that comes with the dies.

I wonder what sort of difference there may be in velocity and POI on the target? Also, what effect this had on accuracy, if any.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.