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Patterning....
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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fnuser
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

Smart guys take all the fun out of stuff, J.K. Grum.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

get the book I mentioned before, the guy fired at a moving board to measure the shot string as the pellets were hitting different parts of the board. pattern looked a bit like a comet. the .410 3" shell is one of the worst for shot stringing but it still kills well. in fact shot stringing gives you a little margin for error as your bird can only be hit by one section of it if you lead too far in front the tail will get your bird (maybe). the other thing patterning will rule out is the odd freak load choke combo that gives you a ball of shot with stuff all spread. good for finishing wounded birds or sitting bunnies but plurry hopeless for anything else at less than 45yrds!!
Bill Axby was a fan of spreader loads for quail eg cut the petals off the wad so shot gets to spread even more.... now that makes sense to me.

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pete4d
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

Quote::
Bill Axby was a fan of spreader loads for quail eg cut the petals off the wad so shot gets to spread even more.... now that makes sense to me.

Elvis ,, I use an old 870 remington (short barrel)as a home defense gun. Loaded with 2-3/4 # 1 buckshot with no wad,,, throws a nice 30 inch (covers a door-way)pattern at 20 feet. Shooting

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

at 20feet a load of #BB would be just plain naasty and probably hit harder with less chance of walls not stopping it.but I do like that whole concept,, we arent allowed to have them for that reason.

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pete4d
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
at 20feet a load of #BB would be just plain naasty and probably hit harder with less chance of walls not stopping it.but I do like that whole concept,, we arent allowed to have them for that reason.


These are some factory loads I picked up at a gun show years ago .

Like the concept of pointing in the right direction in low light conditions .

The shotgun for me is a little safer for use in the house than a pistol (.45) or the (.32)

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

My testing with a shotgun at close ranges, like across a room, pretty much confirmed the old rule-of-thumb that the shot spreads about 1" for every yard travelled. Used a Mossberg riot gun with an open choke.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

Agreed- try it on paper- see where your POI is. Maybe even if a load is grossly diff than another...and all that goes with...I also think I'm not smart enough to counter for differences in chokes and loads on the fly. I just swing on the stuff, break it on the beak and follow through.


Grumulkin wrote:
. Sure, the shot pattern will elongate so some would arrive at a moving target sooner than the rest but the pattern on a patterning target from a moving gun will not be much different than from a static gun.

Interesting. Makes sense.

And the above is what I'm really interested in. I think the term is "edge on" that I'm interested in. What the colum is doing in flite as it catches up to a target- I think it's in a constant state of flux, it could pattern like "this" @ 30 but be toally diff @ 40 due to misshappen pells causing flyers and what not. I could be wrong, again!

I think I'm overthinking it, again. And getting a headache... Laughing
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

For home defense I use 1 1/4 oz of #9. yep! 30 yard dove loads for people at 25 feet. Patterning showed an eight inch solid circle - just tore the paper a big hole. you might ask why #9... it won't penetrate an exterior wall! If you have 1/2" drywall, insulation, exterior sheathing and siding the shot stops before it gets to the siding.

Another quick note about patterning:
I have two barrels for my Mossberg 500 ATP-8. The one it came with (20 cylinder choke) and a hunting vent rib 28 inch barrel with screw-in chokes.
When I was pattern tesing some home rolled 1 1/4 oz. #9 shot at 30 yards I was surprised to find the the faster I pushed the shot the more like a "donut" the pattern got. The highesy density pattern - regardless of barrel or choke was 1400 fps. Anything faster would blow out the pattern into a ring. Lower velocities would spread wider but stay faily uniform. These are the results I got with the two different barrels and three chokes in the hunting barrel. Your mileage may vary.
Paul

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

I would hazard a guess the shot you used for that testing was soft and not high anitomy stuff?
If you really want to see a do nut pattern try shot out of a rifled barrel.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

Yup 8-9 for home defence. Devistating up close, won't go through walls after very much and if it does it's pepper.
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MacD
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

This post went a bit off topic but since we are on defence rounds for the home here is my 2 cents. While I was attending university in Windsor Ontario there was a rash of late night break-ins in my area of town. An experienced army friend showed me how to modify a 12 gauge shot shell to become an incapacitating but, non-lethal (usually), munition for close quarters. Soldiers developed the modification before rubber bullets were readily available.

Simply cut the crimp off of a shell and pour out the shot. Impregnate cotton batten with warmed hard grease or paste wax until it will take no more. While it is still warm stuff it into shell taking care not to swell the case. When it hardens it will form a hard plug that at close quarters will deliver a hammer like blow that can break ribs but it will not penetrate skin or wood. I never had to use one but for fun I shot through some 1/2 inch sheet-rock. It punched through no problem with some force. I have no doubt that a hit on the chest of any burglar would leave him writhing in agony trying to catch his breath.

I have read lately of plastic slugs made from hot glue. I assume they would be even more effective.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

I don't vreckon it would be overly difficult to make some 00 SG balls out of silicone like you would use to seal auto windscreens etc. Use a few pieces of the lead shot to make a mould then cast some up with silicone. It would be even softer than the rubber 00 SG balls that the Police have (I got a few on my reloading bench somewhere).

Another option is to make a beanbag projectile...again, easy to make and very effective at close range.

Not sure how a beanbag would pattern though.

Cheers, Vince

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Patterning.... Reply with quote

fnuser wrote:
Smart guys take all the fun out of stuff, J.K. Grum.
Always learning stuff here, Thanks Smart guys.

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