HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: HackerAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12440

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 114
BOT: 5
Total: 119
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Photo Albums
05: Photo Albums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Photo Albums
10: Forums
11: Photo Albums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Photo Albums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Photo Albums
28: Photo Albums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Home
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Photo Albums
38: Photo Albums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Your Account
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Photo Albums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Photo Albums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Photo Albums
67: Forums
68: Home
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Photo Albums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Photo Albums
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Forums
88: Photo Albums
89: Forums
90: Photo Albums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Your Account
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Photo Albums
97: Forums
98: Your Account
99: Home
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Home
104: Photo Albums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Home
110: Forums
111: Home
112: Photo Albums
113: Forums
114: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 301
 Pictures: 2358
  · Views: 284745
  · Votes: 1297
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

velocity vs bullet weight
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

357 mag carbine vs a 45-70

both at short range will kill deer well.

since your in NH {not knowing the hunting laws there} i would think the 357 may be slightly safer on a miss or a pass thru. i know some of the north eastern states are touchy on deer hunting rifles.

at 100 yards either are very acceptable deer loads.
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
GroovyJack
Member
Member


Joined: May 21, 2005
Posts: 577
Location: Bama

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

I wud be wary of the 357 in any bullet weight for deer .. But , I wont knock it , but , I wud tend to go with a heavier bullet , you want penetration ..
FPE is a bogus and ill concieved tool for comparison .. But people like it cause you get bigger numbers ..
Think outside the box , experiment .. Dang the ole lady and chillen .. Dimitri , chillen is offspring of any parent .. If you live to be a 100 ( God help us please ) and yo mother is still livin' , then you still one o' her chillen' .. Unfortunately parents are stuck with chillen all their lives ..

_________________
My Goal In Life Is To Be As Good Of A Person As My Dog Already Thinks I Am
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

GroovyJack wrote:
If you live to be a 100 ( God help us please )

That is a good thing or a bad thing if I live to 100 ?? Laughing

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3382
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

Yep! sure is Dimitri.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
kentucky hareraiser
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 325
Location: kentucky

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

as the ole' sayin goes....IF I'TS NOT BROKE ,DON'T FIX IT. good group@ 100 yd.

_________________
I would rather be judged by twelve ..................than be packed by six
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

i look as much as bullet diameter. i have a 8mm a 303 brit and a 30 06 eddystone all with 150 grain bullets.

the 8mm is about .320 the 303 is .311 and the 06 is .308.

all three can be shot at the same velocity and all weigh the same but i believe the 8mm would have a bigger kill range because of the actual larger hole in the target.
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

Spacedone,

I like that logic thats why I like the TKO factors. Smile

Using same bullet weights in the same velocity the 8mm would win in my mind.

Problem comes with the fact the 30-06 can push a 200gr for example faster then a 8mm Mauser for example because of the larger case capacity. Smile

PS. That 30-06 Eddystone is a M1917 (P17) ??

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Spacedone
Member
Member


Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

yes its a p17 thats been sported and actually needs a new barrel {old one was cut and is corrosive damaged} it also has the wings cut off and is in a fagin custom stock. i bought it cheap and plan to rebarrel it with a original new barrel.

yes at full load the 06 may outshoot a 8mm {i dont think so but it might} because it is faster but with the 8mm size difference is the kill percentege at a level where it actually makes a difference?
Back to top
View user's profile MSN Messenger
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

Not too sure Spacedone, Remington doesnt list a 200gr load I'll check into it more tommorrow Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3382
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

faster? fatter? copper? spitzer expanding, cast, flat point, large meplat...

Phooie! Somebody please tell me what difference the deer is going to realize between .308 and .320 when one is going 100 fps faster or slower than the other? If the shooter does his job in the field, and the bullet was selected for the velocity and hunting that deer isn't going to be able to tell the difference in the time it takes him to die from terminal, high velocity lead poisoning.
The debate on bullet diameter verses weight is all personal preference. We tend to select the bullet that works for us under the conditions that we choose to use with all the limitations in mind. I use my guns in different ways depending on where and what I am hunting. I might choose to use a light 130 grain bullet from my '06 to shoot deer in the head at 25 yards or a 165 grain spitzer bt for body shots out at 200 yards. I might use 158 grain pistol bullets in my 358 Win to plug coyotes or grouse or a 180 grain to shoulder shots on elk. Each gun is capable of using a wide range of bullet weights and designs to do different jobs that cater to special uses of the hunter. All can be done in good conscience as long as the limits of the gun, ammo and shooter are all taken into account. In each and every case the animal being shot can be killed cleanly.
Choose your ammo and let the other guy choose his - there is no absolute right or wrong way to hunt as long as the limits are taken into account.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

Quote::
Choose your ammo and let the other guy choose his - there is no absolute right or wrong way to hunt as long as the limits are taken into account.

Now that is true Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
squirrelbait
Member
Member


Joined: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Nottingham, NH

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

Pauls, you hit the old nail on the head.........straight.
It is sometimes useful to get other peoples opinions...........and fun to see response, but the bottomline.....you are absolutely correct. The goal is a quick clean kill with minimum damage. Thanks for the input.
Back to top
View user's profile
SwampFox
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 15, 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: Destin, Florida

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

Back to the original post. The 357 in a carbine / rifle is a different critter entirely. The only draw back in the lever gun is the OAL if you want the round to feed through the action. However, you can still feed the gun single shot if you so desire.

In the Marlin, I like the 200 Remington RN bullet and H-110. You simply set the bullet down in the case and crimp over the ogive. A good measureing guide is a revolver cylinder. Set the bullet to be flush or just below the cylinder face when chambered and you are good to go, the round will feed in the Marlin action.

Regards the 180 grain bullets. Hornady makes two 180 grain .357 bullets, the single shot pistol and the spire point rifle bullet. You want to look at the rifle bullet. Speer makes a 180 flat point, which I have also used. I prefer the 180 Hornady rifle bullet, but that is just my preference. You can get 1600 with the 200, so the 180 is capable of better than that. The problem with the SP 180 is the OAL VS capacity.

If you try the 200 with H-110 you are going to be very happy with your little 357 carbine. Done correctly, the 357 will speak with authority. Your max load in a rifle is well beyond the 12 grains shown in some manuals for revolvers.

Oh, you can buy the Remington 200s for cheap, as bulk bullets, in plastic bags, from Midsouth Shooters Supply
Ed

_________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
squirrelbait
Member
Member


Joined: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Nottingham, NH

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

Swampfox, thank you for your response. This is exactly what I was refering to when I started this post.
I tried the Hornaday and Speer but, as you said, OAL is a real issue. I could seem to get the accuracy. I have been using Lil-gun powder. Have you experience resonable accurracy with your loads??
In this gun and the ranges expected here in NH woods (<100yds) I really would like to get something around 2 inch groups at 100. I could live with 3 but couldn't get that with the loads I tried.
What carbine do you use?
Back to top
View user's profile
SwampFox
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 15, 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: Destin, Florida

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: velocity vs bullet weight Reply with quote

I use the Marlin and the Martini. I reloaded for a fellow that had an OU Savage. As a match director, at the range, I have seen and shot many 357 carbines made by various folks. Of the lever guns, the Marlin is, in my opinion, the best. We had a Cowboy Silhouette match every month for years, lever guns and rimmed cartridges on big bore handgun silhouette targets, out to 200 meters. After about 6 months the load I am about to give you was shot by everyone with a 357. Just about everyone had also switched to the little 357 Marlin.

I will give you the load and tell you how to load it: You start with Winchester or Midway brass brass. It must be thin webbed to keep the bulge down to a minimum at the bullet base. The bullet should be the Remington RN or if a cast, the RCBS 200 gr FN. I use Federal 205m primers. The load is 14.6 grains of H-110. The load must be highly compressed and hard crimped. The load shoots .5 inches at 100 with most guns with a good bore and a 1-14 to 1-16 twist barrel. I have shot the load in handguns and rifles. Every single gun shot the load. If done properly, the load can be inserted in the loading gate and functioned through the action. Of note, when you make a dummy, it will be shorter than the finished round, the powder will expand slightly, forcing the bullet out just a tad, so set the bullet deeper to allow, you will see this.

Rather than 357 Cases, I have used heavy 38 Spl cases, military brass. I have also created short 357 brass by cutting the brass back to use the crimping grove or cannelure. I shot this exact load for about 20 years in silhouette competition and won cast bullet revolver at the cast bullet internationals, shooting an 8-inch Python and this load. Do not worry about the rifle and the load.

On a vertical spinner, 8-inch plate by 6-inch plate, at 75 yards, the load in your Marlin will spin the plates.

Oh, in a single shot where you can seat the bullet out, the load goes to 18 grains with the 200 and runs 1760 fps out of a 10-inch handgun. That is Jim Rock's favorite load in one of his XL guns. The 18-grain load runs close to 2000 fps in a single shot rifle.
Ed

_________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.